Finally upgrading - I have some questions.

A

Aaron_mtb

Audiophyte
Hi! Long time lurker, first time poster here. I've read a lot on the forums and the internet in general but am certainly still a noob to all of this. I haven't been able to get a clear answer for a few questions kicking around in my head and I wanted to ask all of you for advice.

I'm finally at the point of upgrading my HT, it's well overdue. For ease on the budget I plan to do it in stages and will start with the subwoofer. I then want to upgrade my front L/R speakers and continue to use my current center channel, but with the age of my speakers I think I will be told I need to upgrade all three. I plan to move the front L/R speakers to the side surround position.

I have an Onkyo TX-NR838 powering my HT. My front soundstage are B&W 686 with a B&W HTM62 center. (these are the first series, not the S2 version). For my rear surround speakers I have Bose 301. For my subwoofer I have a Klipsch SW-350.

My living room where I have the HT setup is medium sized room at 1,856 cubic foot which is open to the hall leading to the bedrooms and has two unobstructed doorways 44" wide along the wall to the rest of the house (kitcen, dining room, family room). The kitchen/dining room is 1,600 cubic foot and the family room is 1,440 cubic foot, all open to each other.

I'm starting with the subwoofer for obvious reasons. The 8" driver with "350 booming watts of peak power" is a bit lacking. I am planning on going with two HSU VTF-15H MK2 subs. Overkill? I'm thinking no one will say it's too much. I do not have a UMIK-1 or REW so I plan to do the sub crawl method to place both subs. With the Kiplsch I have some very noticeable dead spots in a few of the seating positions so I will place one sub for best sound in the MLP and the other I will try to place in a spot to enhance the dead spot for the other listening positions. Since it's not a dedicated HT, space and aesthetics will dictate final placement. My question is, can I use my smaller sub for the sub crawl or does it have to be the 110 pound subs I plan to use? Moving the small Klipsch up onto the furniture will be much easier the lugging the HSU up there.

I am undecided on which route to go when upgrading my fronts. I want it to be as cost effective as possible. Would finding a pair of B&W 684 used on e-bay be too risky? Could i match up my existing center channel with a new B&W 603 S2 Anniversary Edition tower speaker? My HTM62 seems similar built to the new B&W HTM6 S2 Anniversary Edition. Should I just suck it up and get the new 603 S2 and HTM6 S2? If I'm replacing the entire front soundstage is there another brand that would be better? Keep in mind I plan to move my existing front L/R to the side surround positions for a 7.2 setup.

To recap:
Can I use a smaller sub to do the sub crawl and then place larer subs in those spots?
What do you all feel is the best route for me to go when upgrading my front L/R speakers?

Thank you in advance for all the advice and guidance!
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Doing a subwoofer crawl might be OK for the first sub, but it isn't really going to work for finding a place for sub #2. I do think you can use the Klipsch sub for the subwoofer crawl though. It won't reflect deep bass response, since it doesn't really do deep bass, but you will get lots of that for sure with VTF15h mk2s, so that won't matter.

As for upgrading your front stage speakers, I think you can do better than B&W. I definitely would not hold on to the present center speaker either. I would look for a good three-way center speaker and then purchase the left and right fronts based on that. Some speaker lines with good centers: Paradigm Premier, Polk Legend, Monoprice Monolith THX, and, if you really want to splurge, Revel PerformaBe. I think your current B&W bookshelf speakers will be fine as surrounds.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
JMO get the Klipsch subwoofer out of your system all together. Sell it, say goodbye to it, Adios. Suck it up and find the proper placements for the new subs using the new subs (SVS, Monolith, HSU).

As for the main L/C/R do you have a budget that your looking to work with?
 
A

Aaron_mtb

Audiophyte
Thanks ShadyJ and mazersteven!

I didn't really set a budget for the front speakers yet as they are still down the road. Right now I was thinking $2,000. Maybe I"ll bump that up by the time I go to replace the front sound stage.

And yes, that Klipsch is defiately getting out of the system.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Right now I was thinking $2,000. Maybe I"ll bump that up by the time I go to replace the front sound stage.
I think you'd have to bump up that budget slightly for your front soundstage meaning L/C/R. Here are just a couple of good options to look at




 
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A

Aaron_mtb

Audiophyte
Wow! Those SVS are a nice price, and the towers play down to 29Hz, which brings up another uestion I have. Would you set the front speakers to "full range" in the receiver or would you still cross over the lows to the subwoofer?

I do like the SVS subs and really thought I'd be getting one, but with the dead spots in my room I think two is the way to go and I settled on HSU. The PB-16 Ultra had my eye if I stretchd the budget, or the PB-4000.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
You will still want to set the speakers to 'small.' Use an 80Hz crossover frequency. Depending on where you place the subs, you can go to higher frequencies too, if the sub's placement balances out localization effects.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Wow! Those SVS are a nice price, and the towers play down to 29Hz, which brings up another uestion I have. Would you set the front speakers to "full range" in the receiver or would you still cross over the lows to the subwoofer?

I do like the SVS subs and really thought I'd be getting one, but with the dead spots in my room I think two is the way to go and I settled on HSU. The PB-16 Ultra had my eye if I stretchd the budget, or the PB-4000.
PB-3000 or PB-4000 :cool: would be Awesome
 
A

Aaron_mtb

Audiophyte
PB-3000 or PB-4000 :cool: would be Awesome
Yes it would be. But I can only afford one of those. $1,400 for one PB-3000, $1,900 for onePB-4000, or $1,750 for two VTF-15H MK2. I can just drive over to HSU to pick up the subs and avoid shipping costs.
 
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A

Aaron_mtb

Audiophyte
I would look for a good three-way center speaker and then purchase the left and right fronts based on that. Some speaker lines with good centers: Paradigm Premier, Polk Legend, Monoprice Monolith THX, and, if you really want to splurge, Revel PerformaBe. I think your current B&W bookshelf speakers will be fine as surrounds.
Thank you for pointing me in a direction. The Revel PerfomaBe and Polk Legend are out of my range. I'd have to go with the Revel F35 and C25, or the Polk RTiA series. The Paradigm Premier look like nice options. Premier 800F and 600C are too expensive for me but the 700F and 500C might be doable. The Monoprice Monolith THX-465T and THX-365C are right in the range I'm looking at. So far those and the SVS Prime are the most interesting to me.

I have to look to see if any are three way centers though. That will help me narrow it down.
 
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vader540is

vader540is

Audioholic
I demoed a HSU VTF15H-MK2 & Rythmik FV15HP in my living room ( same size as OP's) I kept the Rythmik and sent back the HSU.

Fast forward now and I have a power sound audio TV1812 and it's amazing, great sound signature, awesome ULF and great mid-bass slam.

You should consider

Rythmik FV18

Power Sound Audio TV1812

JTR Cap 2400 ULF
 
A

Aaron_mtb

Audiophyte
Thank you for suggesting a few more options vader. I haven't purchased anything yet, primarily because I had decided on the HSU but they aren't doing in person sales just yet due to COVID. According to their website it seems as though they may be open for in person sales starting in June. I'm heavily leaning toward the HSU because I can get two VTF-15H MK2 for $1829.00 plus tax by driving over there and picking them up. In the meantime, I'll take a look at the subs you recommended.
 
B

Bone-Head

Audioholic Intern
I demoed a HSU VTF15H-MK2 & Rythmik FV15HP in my living room ( same size as OP's) I kept the Rythmik and sent back the HSU.

Fast forward now and I have a power sound audio TV1812 and it's amazing, great sound signature, awesome ULF and great mid-bass slam.

You should consider

Rythmik FV18

Power Sound Audio TV1812

JTR Cap 2400 ULF
I currently have a pair of RYTHMIK FV15HP’s and I’m looking at the FV18’s or the PSA V18 IPAL. your choice of having a sub that is good for mid base is a little different than the FV15H, so I’m not sure how you would compare them. That seems like a very interesting choice and I bet it does well no matter what you play. I’ve got the mid bass covered with my towers, so my pick will be a little different. I’m kinda winging it and my comments are only based off what I thought I understood on the PSA website. Am I wrong?
 
vader540is

vader540is

Audioholic
I currently have a pair of RYTHMIK FV15HP’s and I’m looking at the FV18’s or the PSA V18 IPAL. your choice of having a sub that is good for mid base is a little different than the FV15H, so I’m not sure how you would compare them. That seems like a very interesting choice and I bet it does well no matter what you play. I’ve got the mid bass covered with my towers, so my pick will be a little different. I’m kinda winging it and my comments are only based off what I thought I understood on the PSA website. Am I wrong?
I wouldn't get the V18iPal.

IMO the iPal with the ICE Amp is only 960watt RMS and really doesn't push the iPal to its limits.

I would just stick with the Neo driver.

I would also stick with the TV PSA subs, those have a port tune of 12hz compared to the V which is only 19hz.

So look at the TV1812 or the TV2112

I wouldn't recommend the TV1512 cuz it's pretty similar to the FV15HP from my experience.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Yes it would be. But I can only afford one of those. $1,400 for one PB-3000, $1,900 for onePB-4000, or $1,750 for two VTF-15H MK2. I can just drive over to HSU to pick up the subs and avoid shipping costs.
You can't beat that man. The 15H is a very nice sub, and aesthetically speaking looks nicer, but you can get almost equal performance from a pair of VTF-3 MK5s. Just something to consider if you wanna funnel a few more bucks into your speakers.
 
A

Aaron_mtb

Audiophyte
You can't beat that man. The 15H is a very nice sub, and aesthetically speaking looks nicer, but you can get almost equal performance from a pair of VTF-3 MK5s. Just something to consider if you wanna funnel a few more bucks into your speakers.
I'm glad you mentioned the VTF-3 MK5. For whatever reason I never looked at them. They are almost identical to the 15H in performance, albeit a bit quieter, and are missing the XLR inputs which I probably wouldn't use anyway. And saving $200 makes me very interested in them.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I'm glad you mentioned the VTF-3 MK5. For whatever reason I never looked at them. They are almost identical to the 15H in performance, albeit a bit quieter, and are missing the XLR inputs which I probably wouldn't use anyway. And saving $200 makes me very interested in them.
They both use the same driver and amplifier. The main real difference in performance lies in the box with the 15H being a bit larger and able to dig a bit deeper. Aside from that and aesthetics they're pretty close to the same.
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Senior Audioholic
Hi Aaron,

If you are driving over to HSU anyway, take a listen to their CCB-8 speakers. I have 3 of them for my Fronts (in my 5.2.2 HT system) and they are truly impressive to all that have heard them.
 
J

JengaHit

Audioholic
Hi Aaron,

If you are driving over to HSU anyway, take a listen to their CCB-8 speakers. I have 3 of them for my Fronts (in my 5.2.2 HT system) and they are truly impressive to all that have heard them.
I have the CCB-8s too. Impressive soundstage, imaging, and super-wide sweet spot. But make sure they have them set up correctly, with extreme toe-in, or they'll sound bright. I've heard Hsu doesn't always have them set up correctly (strange).
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Field Marshall
I demoed a HSU VTF15H-MK2 & Rythmik FV15HP in my living room ( same size as OP's) I kept the Rythmik and sent back the HSU.

Fast forward now and I have a power sound audio TV1812 and it's amazing, great sound signature, awesome ULF and great mid-bass slam.

You should consider

Rythmik FV18

Power Sound Audio TV1812

JTR Cap 2400 ULF
Was it worth the return shipping ?? Wow that’s a Heavy sub !!! Everything 110+ is super heavy .
How did they design pro subs for low bass ?
 

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