Favorite Amplifier that you could buy, but don’t buy…

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What is your favorite amplifier that you could afford, but just don’t buy because it’s not cost-effective?

Mac? Bryston? Mark Levinson? PassLab? ATI?

What are the 3 most important factors that contribute to your answer?

Aesthetic? Pride of ownership? Sound quality?

 

[TLS Guy]

What is your favorite amplifier that you could afford, but just don’t buy because it’s not cost-effective?

Mac? Bryston? Mark Levinson? PassLab? ATI?

What are the 3 most important factors that contribute to your answer?

Aesthetic? Pride of ownership? Sound quality?

Reliability is top of the list for me. Ultra low distortion, especially crossover distortion and superb SNR. That is what I demand in an amp. Low heat production is also a string consideration.

 

[mono-bloc]

-Interesting question. It really comes down to what one user can afford.. If it was choice then it would be a European brand. Most American brands are ove priced
rubbish, and with the exchange rates are completely out of anyone' thinking. Consider the fact that the american price has to be more or less doubled, plus freight and GST

Price no object wou ld be Gryphon, with a life time guarantee. or the Polish brand Block. For a more realistic price Cyrus, upper range models . Class "D" would be an absolute No No. Our mates Quad are more or less unknow in Oz, with one dealer in Melbourne https://soundreference.com.au/brands/QUAD.html And I don't know of anyone who owns Quad or anyone who knows anyone who knows anyone with Quod. I'm not saying there bad, but they completely lack any sort of advertising.

 

[ski2xblack]

Practically speaking? Amps are mature tech.* Pick one with low distortion, linear response, low output impedance, and enough power that you won't clip it, and voila, your "amp problem" is solved for decades.

That's the reductive Arny Kreuger-ish take. Sorry, Andrew!

I do have some techno curiosity about TLS' preferred Quads. Really clever. No crossover distortion with those, class A output without being toaster ovens, low parts count, wide tolerances for those parts, and longevity in spades. Sure, things like crossover distortion in class AB amps is a long solved problem, and any good amp should last a long time. Still, from an engineering+design perspective, those Quads are very interesting.

* Class AB solid state amps are mature tech. If/when I need another amp, it will most likely be a hypex based one, and probably an unglamorous one since I keep the amps out of sight. Those hypex amps seem to be mature tech as well, and bring SOTA performance on the bench that surpasses everything that has come before.

 

[lovinthehd]

Since I haven't found much to the sound quality thing, nor aesthetic, I generally go for value/price for power/impedance handling. I have some 40 year old Carver amps that make a bit too much noise these days, but not sure many others would be much better at the aging thing.....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Price no object would be Gryphon, with a life time guarantee.

The Gryphon website states:
Service under warranty is the sole responsibility of the distributor/dealer who supplies the product. Do not return the product to our factory with a warranty claim unless authorized in writing by the dealer.

It doesn’t say lifetime or any amount of time warranty.

 

[TLS Guy]

Practically speaking? Amps are mature tech.* Pick one with low distortion, linear response, low output impedance, and enough power that you won't clip it, and voila, your "amp problem" is solved for decades.

That's the reductive Arny Kreuger-ish take. Sorry, Andrew!

I do have some techno curiosity about TLS' preferred Quads. Really clever. No crossover distortion with those, class A output without being toaster ovens, low parts count, wide tolerances for those parts, and longevity in spades. Sure, things like crossover distortion in class AB amps is a long solved problem, and any good amp should last a long time. Still, from an engineering+design perspective, those Quads are very interesting.

* Class AB solid state amps are mature tech. If/when I need another amp, it will most likely be a hypex based one, and probably an unglamorous one since I keep the amps out of sight. Those hypex amps seem to be mature tech as well, and bring SOTA performance on the bench that surpasses everything that has come before.

Yes, they are fascinating concept. If you look at the circuit you would say they are not stable. But they are and very stable. +ve feedback has long been a no can do in amp design, and yet Peter broke the rule and got away with it. He has to be credited with making the first really stable and reliable class AB amp, the Quad 303. Back in the sixties the early AB amps were blowing up left right and center, and people hanging onto their tube amps. The 303 really changed that and he ended production of the Quad II tube amps, despite uproar from the "Golden Ears!" There was uproar and still is. After his death the new Chinese owners put the Quad II tube amp back in production, which I think it still is. Which I regard as pandering to nonsense.

Now the original Quad 405, did have minor SQ issues. Its development was not a straight line, and the Quad 405 II was a definite improvement. However even so, if you look at the service manuals there are numerous iterations of the 405 and 405 II circuits. The large amps the 606 and his last the 909 where superb, with the 909 being his masterpiece. The big issue for me is the low heat production. So I can stack all those amps one on top of the other and not worry about the amps getting hot enough to fry eggs!

If I were starting out now though, I would be in the class D camp. However the downside is a huge part count and modern manufacturing techniques making repair pretty much impossible except by board change. That is a bit of lottery depending on availability.

Lastly I would address the crossover distortion at low signal of class AB amps. Yes, this has been solved but at a price. The price is heavier bias towards class A, and higher quiescent current and therefore heat production and reduced acoustic efficiency. There is likely a penalty there with shortened life due to heat stress in the output devices. There is never a free lunch.

 

[mono-bloc]

It doesn’t say lifetime or any amount of time warranty.

Exactly, and it doesn't state a time limit.. But you would hardly be expected to ship it back to Denmark for service.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If I were starting out now though, I would be in the class D camp. However the downside is a huge part count and modern manufacturing techniques making repair pretty much impossible except by board change. That is a bit of lottery depending on availability.

So you would buy class D if you were starting all over again and knowing everything you know. This is because of their SOTA measurement and power efficiency?

Does it matter to you if the class D amp has a switching power supply or a linear power supply ?

And the only reservation of class D is the warranty due to parts availability?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Exactly, and it doesn't state a time limit.. But you would hardly be expected to ship it back to Denmark for service.

So if the dealer is solely responsible for the warranty, what happens if the dealer goes out of business like so many dealers?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

…Price no object would be Gryphon…

So the Gryphon Apex 210W x 2Ch (8 ohm) amp retails $100K USD. Definitely not cost-effective.

If a local dealer offers you this amp at 80% off for $20,000 and lifetime DEALER-warranty (not factory warranty), would you buy it?

 

[PENG]

Of the 4 listed, I would go with McIntosh and Bryston (but class AB, their Ds are too new). Their designs are well proven, reliable as perceived based on people's experience. The only reason for not buying them are cost effectiveness, space limitations, and weight, except for those under 60, over 5'10" 180 pounders.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Of the 4 listed, I would go with McIntosh and Bryston (but class AB, their Ds are too new). Their designs are well proven, reliable as perceived based on people's experience. The only reason for not buying them are cost effectiveness, space limitations, and weight, except for those under 60, over 5'10" 180 pounders.

I was looking at some Mac AVR and Amps on Crutchfield and was surprised that Mac only offers a 3 YR warranty. Even Anthem, Sony ES, Marantz, Yamaha offer a 5 YR warranty on their AVR. But Mac only offers a 3YR warranty for their amps, which should be more reliable than any AVR.

McIntosh - Home Audio Electronic Products Warranty

Protect your investment in high-end audio equipment with McIntosh's comprehensive warranty. Get peace of mind with our Home Audio Electronic Products Warranty.

www.mcintoshlabs.com

 

[TLS Guy]

So you would buy class D if you were starting all over again and knowing everything you know. This is because of their SOTA measurement and power efficiency?

Does it matter to you if the class D amp has a switching power supply or a linear power supply ?

And the only reservation of class D is the warranty due to parts availability?

Yes, I am an old man and grounded in the "Golden Age of British Audio", as it has long been known. It was truly a golden age, with some remarkable pioneers and designers. So, my Quad amps are not going anywhere. Elegant design has so much to recommend it. The complexity of current gear is actually problematic. The introduction of surface mounted, robotically placed components is in many ways a dreadful curse. For one they allow for gratuitous complexity and limit the life of many units. So how long you will actually have the units is totally dependent on how many excess boards the outfit makes and orders, as second runs are very rare, as the set up for a run is so costly.

Actually Peter's patents have long expired, and so his designs are free for all to use. The current owners of Quad still make current dumping amps but in China, and the output devices have been seriously downsized and they are sold at steep prices to make a huge mark up per unit.

So, I would be inclined to gamble on a good class D just for the cooler running. In so many ways you are dependent these days on the ethics of the manufacturer to make arrangements for long term support of their products, especially if the cost per unit is stratospheric.

I have a feeling many either sense, or have really been burned by these issues. There are many factors driving good audio and AV into near oblivion. I have no idea how we escape this conundrum. My escape is to use as much good fixable gear from a previous age as I can.

 

[Verdinut]

An alternate to the Class D amps could also be the QSC DCA Series power amps for long term reliability and parts availability. Their aesthetic appearance is not as good as some Class D cabinets however. But as a matter of fact, these products which carry only a 2 year warranty, were released in 1998 and they're still being built without any modification, as they still have the same model numbers. Because of their protection circuits, you can't blow them. They're affordable as well.

DCA Series

www.qsys.com