Extract audio/video from a PC --> 4 TVs

[lauraparis]

Hello,

I'm in the final steps for opening my fitness center in Paris, but I have a final question. Total mystery for me.

On my PC, I have a playlist of .avi and .mp4 videos (I'll change them every day).
I want to extract sound/video from my PC and send them to the 4 giant TVs. So, all TVs will display the same music videos at same moment.

My HUGE problem is that, in my office, I want to split my PC monitor in two to control what I send to the TVs and check that all is ok: on the left part of the monitor, I want to see my normal desktop (to check the paylist, etc.), and on the right part, I want to see the videos, exactly what my clients will see. Of course, I never want that my clients see the mouse pointer, texts, etc., I don't want that they see what I'm doing: only music videos for hours and hours.

Splitting my PC monitor like that is possible? May I need 2 PC monitors?

Where plugging the two PC monitors?
The HDMI port of the Graphic Card is already use to send the video signales to the Bluestream video splitter (which allows to send the videos to the 4 TVs).
- So, I plug one PC monitor to the DisplayPort of the Graphic Card? If so, where can I plug the second monitor? To the HDMI output of the Bluestream splitter?

Thanks a lot!

Laura

 

[Eppie]

I will assume that your PC is running Windows. Yes, you should run a dual (two) monitor setup to keep your office desktop private from your clients. Your GT1030 should support dual monitors or you can enable the graphics on your motherboard and use both the built in graphics and the GT1030. You will need a second PC monitor to view the video sent to the client TVs. Connect your primary monitor to the display port on the GT1030 and connect the HDMI on the GT1030 to the Bluestream input. Connect the second PC monitor to the Bluestream HDMI output (this is a loop out for local monitoring or extending to other devices). If you can't use the display port connection, you can enable the built in graphics on the motherboard and use the HDMI port or DVI or VGA connection.

Go into the Window's Display settings and under Multiple Displays enable the second display. You can try and auto-detect or set it manually. The two screens get labeled #1 and #2 and you can set which screen is your primary screen (#1) -- make your office desktop #1 and the client video screens #2. Your mouse cursor will now move across your office desktop and from the right edge it will move to the second display. The two screen areas are treated as one area for your mouse and keyboard. After you open your video playing software, drag it over to the right and move it to the second client desktop. If you run your videos full screen (to hide the Windows task bar) it will only fill the second client screen and not your office desktop. Once the video is started, move the mouse cursor back to the left to your office desktop and you can work normally while the videos play.

Note that you may get both the office desktop sounds and the audio portion of the videos playing both locally and on the TVs. I have not experimented with this but you may need to play with the Windows audio settings to send the audio to the Focusrite, which I assume will be connected via USB (change the settings from Speakers to USB / Focusrite). Windows only allows one audio output device so you may not be able to separate the audio into desktop and music video sound. You can however use the Windows Volume Mixer to mute your desktop or mute specific apps so that they won't play over the client TVs.

 

[BMXTRIX]

@Eppie is dead on with his answer.

Windows sounds will definitely carry to all speakers in the space as you can't lock this out. You aren't using two computers, you are using one. Always remember that.

This PC can't be used for anything else really as it will be driving videos all the time and you should have two monitors on your desk. You should even have a speaker on your desk so you can monitor the audio playback. Whoever is selling you this stuff and setting it all up should be fully aware of your needs and be able to set up the PC displays and a local speaker for audio monitoring.

I'm not sure what specific software you intend to use for the playback of the videos and playlist creation. I'm sure you've researched this already and have this figured out.

 

[Eppie]

The one thing I should add is that Windows will assign #1 and #2 to the two displays but I don't think you can choose which is which. I think it is automatic, so do not worry about which is #1 and #2. What is important is that the display for your office desktop should get set as the primary display and the other as secondary. That is something you can control in the display settings. Windows will use the same background image for both displays but your primary display will have your desktop icons.

Note that in Windows you can set the resolution for each display independently. They do not have to be the same. If your primary monitor is 1440 but your TVs are 1080 you can set your display properties to match. I have not used the Bluestream so I do not know how Windows will detect it's resolution or whether it will automatically scale images to match your TVs, but I would set the secondary Windows display resolution to match the TVs. The maximum resolution will of course be limited by what the graphics card, Bluestream and TVs support.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would get a monitor that matches the resolution of the TVs you are using, or if you are going to use lower resolution, then get a monitor which matches that. Using 4K resolution is nice, but pointless if you don't have 4K videos of good quality. 1080p videos are often just fine. Your splitter, while it shows support for full 4K/60 resolution, also converts the video to a top end which will limit quality.

I likely would set the PC up for 1080p video output (1920x1080 @ 60hz) and use that for video playback as it should be super reliable.

 

[lauraparis]

Hello,

I have a HUGE problem with HDbaseT.

I want to send my videos to 4 TVs. For the sound system, all is ok, I extract the sound from the PC visa a USB port and a Focusrite device (--> amplis --> passive speakers), but for image, big problems...

My configuration is:

PC Graphic Card Nvidia Geforce GT1030
-->(HDMI)--> Blustream HSP14CS (transmitter)
-->(cat6)--> Blustream HEX70B-RX (receiver)
-->(HDMI)--> 4K TV LG 75SM9000

I have 4 TVs, and the 4 cat6 cable lengths are: 24 meters / 32 meters / 38 meters / 43 meters

With the 43 meters cable, no power light on the HDbaseT receiver. So the TV displays "no signal" of course.

I have simple UTP cat6 cables, so I bought S/FTP cat6 cables --> same problem.
I changed ALL the HDMI cables with costly shielded HDMI --> same problem.
I changed ALL the RJ45, trying costly shielded ones --> same problem.
I tried lower PC video resolutions --> same problem.
I tuned the HDbaseT transmistter EDID to 3 ON/ 2 OFF/ 2 OFF/ 1 ON (4K30Hz 4:4:4/2.0ch) --> same problem.
I tuned the HDbaseT transmistter EDID to 3 OFF/ 2 ON/ 2 ON/ 1 OFF (4K60Hz 4:2:0/2.0ch) --> same problem.
I tuned the HDbaseT transmistter EDID to 3 OFF/ 2 OFF/ 2 OFF/ 1 OFF (1080p/2.0ch) --> same problem.

Of course, I used a test device to check the cat6 cable: the cable is ok.

Normally, all my installation would support 60Hz 4:4:4 and 4K. I don't even tried 4K, I only need 1080p. But even with 1080p, problem.

The Blustream normally would be ok with the lenght of my cables. But even when I connect only 1 cable, the 43 meters cable, that long cable doesn't work.

Where is the problem? The graphic card? I have to add a DC12V power device to the 43 meters away receiver (normally the PoC is ok with my lenghts?

Weeks and weeks trying to find a solution... :/

Thanks a lot,

Laura

 

[Eppie]

Thanks again for the description and diagrams. One thing that is not quite clear. Do any of the TVs work? Is it just the 43m cable run that does not work or do all of them fail to work? Did you get a second PC monitor to set up a dual monitor system on the PC as discussed above?

I would first connect both PC monitors to the PC and make sure that your dual desktop is set up correctly. This was explained above. I would then connect the second video out on the PC to the Bluestream HDMI in and connect the PC monitor to the HDMI out on the Bluestream HSP14C to make sure that the video from the PC is passing through to the Bluestream. That would confirm that you are getting video from the PC to the Bluestream. I would then tackle each video channel on the Bluestream one by one starting with the shortest cable length. If you can get the first TV to work, then you can swap receivers and cables to test them out on that channel which you know is working. If none of the TVs are working, I would move one TV next to your Bluestream and test it in the same room with shorter cables. You can also take your second PC monitor and connect it to the HDMI out on the Bluestream receiver to see if the TV is the issue. The idea is to try and follow the video signal from the PC to one of the TVs and see where the connection is failing.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Once again, I'm just following up to agree with @Eppie on things.

You need to start at the VERY front and work your way outward.

The EDID settings of the device are nearly irrelevant. What matters is what your PC is set to. You need to ensure that your computer is actually setup properly, that it is putting out video properly. That it is getting from the desktop into the HSP14CS, and that is the video that is expected.

So, you don't start at the end points, you start at the beginning.

Plug your computer into a monitor. Do you see video from that connection? What is the resolution of that video?
Plug your computer inot the HSP14CS and plug the monitor into the HDMI out of the HSP14CS. Do you see video? What is the resolution of that video?
Now plug ONE endpoint in. One receiver only. Now plug it into a TV. You should STILL see video on your local monitor and you should see video on the receiving TV. Do you? If not... Move the TV closer. Like literally use a 20 foot pre-fab cat-5e/6 cable and try it out. Does it work? If not, then you need to contact the manufacturer.

I deal with a 16x16 HDMI matrix in my home. It's all cat-5e cable used, and it is all 1080p/60 distribution. It works great. I bought all the gear off of eBay, a couple grand maybe. (maybe more, I got it a while ago) But, it works day in and day out.

The key with troubleshooting is to ensure that you are starting with really reliable gear, and my concern is that if you aren't seeing anything, anywhere, then perhaps you aren't even feeding a signal to the gear. But, once you know you are, then the gear should just work.

Make sure all networking is wired following 568B networking standards on both ends.

As part of my standard testing, I do own 30m test cables which I sometimes utilize when I'm not convinced a network cable is working as expected. It may be worth buying a long shielded cat-6 cable just to test with.

 

[lauraparis]

Thanks to both of you. Yes, I did all these tests: the 3 TVs with shorter cables are ok. The 3 TVs display my videos. The only problem is long cables, like if the transmitter was unable to send the datas when the cable is long (I tried many long cables).

 

[Eppie]

Thanks to both of you. Yes, I did all these tests: the 3 TVs with shorter cables are ok. The 3 TVs display my videos. The only problem is long cables, like if the transmitter was unable to send the datas when the cable is long (I tried many long cables).

According to the web site:
"It transmits HDMI, Bi-directional IR and PoC (Power over Cable) up to lengths of 70m (40m 4K 60Hz 4:4:4) over a single CAT cable."

So if I understand this correctly, only your 43m cable is not working and you have tried several different cables. You need to first verify that each individual component is working ok on that 4th channel. I will assume that the 3 closer TVs are connected to outputs 1, 2 and 3.

• Set the computer (the desktop running the videos) and the HSP14C to 1080p and check that the 3 TVs still work. 4k 60Hz 4:4:4 is not guaranteed to work beyond 40m.
• Connect one of the 3 working transmitters (with the shorter cables) to Output 4 (or whatever the longest cable was on) on the HSP14C to verify that Output 4 is working. This will confirm that all 4 outputs have a signal.
• Once you know that all 4 outputs are ok, take one of the 3 working transmitter/receiver pairs and swap it for the 4th one. Make sure that the 3 TVs still work. This will confirm that all 4 transmitters/receivers are working.
• Lastly, connect a video source to the 4th TV, preferably to the HDMI input that the transmitter/receiver was using. A computer laptop with an HDMI cable is good for this. This will confirm that the TV is not the issue.
• You have now eliminated every component except for the actual 43m cable as a source of the problem. Try the 43m cable on all 4 outputs of the HSP14C to make sure that one of the outputs is not partially faulty.
• If the 4th TV still fails to work, then either there is something about those cables that the HSP14C can not cope with, or the HSP14C is not working to spec and will not transmit beyond 38m. I would then try and contact your dealer or Bluestream customer support directly and explain the issue and everything you have tried.

 

[lauraparis]

I did all of that, and switched all the elements. All is ok.

The problem is only with cables more than 40 meters.

Maybe we lose voltage because of the cable quality and I have to add a power supply to the receiver?

I also maybe have to change the cables? It seems that there is a fire risk with CCA cables (my place is public, so all must be ok for security)? My current simple UTP cables are all in PVC trunkings.

So, for new cables, what do I need to ensure PoE?

• Copper mandatory?
• F/UTP and no UTP?
• Cat7 possible? (on amazon, it seems that there are more products available on Cat7 than on Cat6)?
• 23AWG?

Is this cable nice? https://www.amazon.fr/HB-DIGITAL-halogène-Conforme-données-Ethernet/dp/B082Y7C6BZ

 

[Eppie]

I did all of that, and switched all the elements. All is ok.

The problem is only with cables more than 40 meters.

Maybe we lose voltage because of the cable quality and I have to add a power supply to the receiver?

I also maybe have to change the cables? It seems that there is a fire risk with CCA cables (my place is public, so all must be ok for security)? My current simple UTP cables are all in PVC trunkings.

So, for new cables, what do I need to ensure PoE?

• Copper mandatory?
• F/UTP and no UTP?
• Cat7 possible? (on amazon, it seems that there are more products available on Cat7 than on Cat6)?
• 23AWG?

Is this cable nice? https://www.amazon.fr/HB-DIGITAL-halogène-Conforme-données-Ethernet/dp/B082Y7C6BZ

@BMXTRIX ?

 

[BMXTRIX]

I did all of that, and switched all the elements. All is ok.

The problem is only with cables more than 40 meters.

Maybe we lose voltage because of the cable quality and I have to add a power supply to the receiver?

I also maybe have to change the cables? It seems that there is a fire risk with CCA cables (my place is public, so all must be ok for security)? My current simple UTP cables are all in PVC trunkings.

In the USA CCA may not be run in walls and it is pretty well established that this is NOT the proper cable to use in any installation where reliability and quality matters. Use pure copper networking cables always, and understand that HDBT pushes cables to their absolute limit. Make darn sure you are using high quality cat-6 or preferably cat-6STP cabling for all HDBT runs. We typically use Belden or Crestron cabling for our HDBT needs of up to nearly the full extent of what HDBT can deliver and runs of 70m and more at times. It can be tricky, and sometimes frustrating to get it to work right.

So, for new cables, what do I need to ensure PoE?

• Copper mandatory?
• F/UTP and no UTP?
• Cat7 possible? (on amazon, it seems that there are more products available on Cat7 than on Cat6)?
• 23AWG?

Is this cable nice? https://www.amazon.fr/HB-DIGITAL-halogène-Conforme-données-Ethernet/dp/B082Y7C6BZ

The cable you are linking to seems perfectly acceptable. Make sure you are using shielded terminations which are designed for that specific cable.

If you've tested at shorter lengths on ALL outputs, and you get good PoHDBT then the issue is very likely with the length and it may simply be incapable of delivering the power necessary at the length you are hoping to achieve. With the distances listed, this appears to the HDBT-Lite rather than the fully specified HDBT spec. which allows for video at 100m. So, the PoHDBT capabilities may not be as strong either.

All this typically means is that you need to power the endpoints locally rather than remotely. This shouldn't be an issue behind a display as long as the endpoints allow for local power to be utilized. Once again, this is something we have run into over the years when we haven't had a proper PoE switch to add power to the endpoints.

There is no question that I would be on the phone with the manufacturer and pumping them for ideas of what could be going on as well.

BUT: In my experience, it is almost always the cable.

Make sure you are swapping end-points around to ensure it isn't an endpoint. Make sure you are working from front to end. Make sure you are setting your video to the LOWEST acceptable format, which should be 1080p.

Be aware, 1080p video operates at about 3.3Gb/s. 4K/60 operates at about 18Gb/s. So, you must have over five times as much available bandwidth on the cable to get a true 4K/60 signal. In reality, HDBT typically uses DSC (display stream compression) to achieve 4K/60, so it really operates closer to 10Gb/s, which is the upper limit of most network cabling.

Test/swap/test/swap/test/swap. Change ONE thing at a time until you find where the break is.

If you KNOW the receiver is good.
If you KNOW the output is good.
If you KNOW the resolution is 1080p.
If you KNOW the TV is good.
If you've done everything other than try a completely different cable.
Then that's where you are at. Use a different cable.

It may be worth getting a cable like this which is pre-terminated to use as a test cable:

https://www.amazon.fr/SEBSON-C%C3%A2ble-Ethernet-50m-Application/dp/B09FTF9B6R/ref=sr_1_6

 

[lauraparis]

Solution found! With this product, cat7, FULL COPPER, everythink is working well!

 

[jinjuku]

This is why I like Netgear and AV over IP solutions. You get out of the analog issues that using CAT cabling as balun presents.

 

[Eppie]

Solution found! With this product, cat7, FULL COPPER, everythink is working well!
View attachment 55568

Thanks for updating us. I believe that is what BMXTRIX recommended: solid copper with shielding. I wonder how those other cables were constructed? At least it's all working now.

 

[BMXTRIX]

This is why I like Netgear and AV over IP solutions. You get out of the analog issues that using CAT cabling as balun presents.

While I like AV over IP, it can often be laggy, or extremely expensive. Especially with ultra-fast encoding/decoding solutions. That is still ignoring that you typically need a quality layer-3 switch, unless you are going point to point.

I've done a number of Crestron NVX installations, and I've had reasonably good results overall, but once I got outside of a single switch solution, things fell apart rather quickly and a network engineer was required multiple times to get a fix going.

 

[charlesmilo]

I've dealt with similar setups as a video editor and I totally get the challenge. Yes, splitting your PC monitor into two separate displays for different tasks is possible. You might actually not need two monitors for this; many graphic cards support multi-display setups. You can extend your desktop across two monitors, dedicating one for control and the other for previewing what's being broadcasted to the TVs. Regarding your setup, plugging one monitor into your graphic card's DisplayPort and another into an HDMI port is a common solution. If your graphic card and setup allow, you could indeed use the HDMI output from the Bluestream splitter for the second monitor, but ensure it supports such a configuration. For such things helpes me sometimes Movavi that I found when I was looking for a free video editing software no watermark. I was amazed that it could help me. This tool made it easier to handle the video content before sending it out to any display setup.