External phono preamp?

Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
I have an Onkyo TX-NR696, Klipsch La Scala speakers and a ProJect turntable with a Red Ortofon cart. I always play music in 2 ch. 2.1 to be more specific. I have always relied on built-in phono pre-amps. Records sound very good on this system. Would I benefit tremendously with an external TT preamp and of course choose a different audio input, because it looks like my phono input is fixed as is. If yes, that would be a great improvement, how much would I need to spend and what models should I look at?
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
That Pro-Ject phono preamp seems to be a good product. However, if the aesthetics are not a major factor, if for example you can hide it, I would favor the ART DJ-Pre II preamp which was seriously reviewed in audiosciencereview:
 
Last edited:
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
That Pro-Ject phono preamp seems to be a good product. However, if the aesthetics are not a major factor, if for example you can hide the it, I would favor the ART DJ-Pre II preamp which was seriously reviewed in audiosciencereview:
What about the question of if it will improve the already the very good sound? I am wondering if these pre-amps are for folks with integrated amps w/o a tt pre-amp.
 
Last edited:
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
What about the question of if it will improve the already the very good sound? I am wondering if these pre-amps are for folks with integrated amps w/o a tt pre-amp.
It's really hard to tell unless two products are tested with reliable test equipment, or even if you had the opportunity of comparing them in a double blind listening test, which is rather hard to do. But you are curious and want answers, I suggest you get the ART preamp which only cost $49 and is an excellent product despite its low price. Price is not always a warranty of better performance or quality. This preamp was initially released to be used by DJs but it can suit other needs because of its excellent performance.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
What about the question of if it will improve the already the very good sound? I am wondering if these pre-amps are for folks with integrated amps w/o a tt pre-amp.
Those external phono pre-amps probably will not make a noticeable difference compared to the built-in phono section in your existing integrated amp. (Please remind me what that is.)

For what it's worth, I've used a turntable with a moving magnet pickup for years. I've used an old stereo receiver from the 70s (when all audio amps and receivers came with a built-in phono pre-amp), and three different AVRs. Two of them had built-in phono sections, and one did not. I bought an inexpensive Audio-Technica AT-PEQ3, for that last AVR. I've never noticed a difference among those 4 different phono pre-amps.

That doesn't prove that all external phono pre-amps can't make a difference, but it does strongly support that idea.

I suggest you save your money and stop worrying over this. If you read somewhere online or in a magazine about phono pre-amps making a difference – stop reading that source as it isn't reliable info.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Those external phono pre-amps probably will not make a noticeable difference compared to the built-in phono section in your existing integrated amp. (Please remind me what that is.)

For what it's worth, I've used a turntable with a moving magnet pickup for years. I've used an old stereo receiver from the 70s (when all audio amps and receivers came with a built-in phono pre-amp), and three different AVRs. Two of them had built-in phono sections, and one did not. I bought an inexpensive Audio-Technica AT-PEQ3, for that last AVR. I've never noticed a difference among those 4 different phono pre-amps.

That doesn't prove that all external phono pre-amps can't make a difference, but it does strongly support that idea.

I suggest you save your money and stop worrying over this. If you read somewhere online or in a magazine about phono pre-amps making a difference – stop reading that source as it isn't reliable info.
Swerd and I have had similar experiences/conclusions. I do have an ART Phono Plus (a few more features for digitizing than the DJ Pre II), but after I stopped trying to digitize I just took it out of the loop; I also have an older Carver pre-amp that can handle both MM/MC cartridges but never had an MC, but never noticed any particular difference using the settings/load adjustments on either compared to the various built-in stages I've had on a variety of both 2ch receivers, pre-amps (I also have an Adcom), and avrs. At least nothing like oh my gawd that sounds sooo much better kind of thing, plus with a single tt/cart kinda hard to do a proper comparison.

There are other phono stages that have been tested on ASR, might check those out (the DJ II still ranks high on their list). ASR has a more extensive forum section on the subject than here. This is a thread asking about what measurements were to be made you might find interesting https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/phono-pre-amp-what-are-we-testing-for.2173/
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
Good to know fellas. Thanks. I'll leave well enough alone.

Those external phono pre-amps probably will not make a noticeable difference compared to the built-in phono section in your existing integrated amp. (Please remind me what that is.)
I don't have an integrated amp. My tt is hooked up to the Onkyo AVR mentioned above.
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
I'm a 2 channel person and the right Phono stage is the key to (serious) vinyl reproduction. I also enjoy the phono sections in a number of the older systems. Mcintosh C11 or C22 both have interchangeable phono stages, both are excellent. MX110 is another jewel in the rough.

I have a few newer units in preamps but for the money and aftermarket with a LOT of goodies the Mighty Puffin phono preamp is super. A lot of features onboard and a few more options per builds. The guy is right there to support you with updates on SW or any question you have. I picked up one with all the trimming and great cables that were seasoned for 500.00. MM, MC and MI carts the little guy supports them all, pretty well. It's not a Herron V2 but if you find one of those. Total jackpot. I have used Thoren and Russco TTs for over 50 year. Russcos are Gerrard killers. Fractional motors with oilers and a gear shifter, how cool is that.. :)

There are some good 49.00 phono stages. The cables and cart match is the key.. Seasoned TT cables sure help too, The more they been used the better they sound, OCC or OFC not so much..

The wife likes her, Dad's Marantz 7C preamp with a built in phono stage and a Gerrard 301. It is so old it drip oil/grease. LOL. I did rebuild everything for her 15 years ago when she got it. Reminds me of an old Harley, marks it's spot.. Bronze MM cart and a Mono Ortofon for her 78s. Lovely sound. Cary V12R power amp and Jenson Imperials for speakers.. Nice system. She still streams more than anything.. She'll actually HISS at you if you get to close to her system.. LOL

I guess our kid will make 3 generation of Marantz and 3 of Mcintosh. Of people, not gear.. The gear is 60+ years old. Good phono stages though.. The Imperials ain't bad either..

Regards
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm a 2 channel person and the right Phono stage is the key to (serious) vinyl reproduction. I also enjoy the phono sections in a number of the older systems. Mcintosh C11 or C22 both have interchangeable phono stages, both are excellent. MX110 is another jewel in the rough.

I have a few newer units in preamps but for the money and aftermarket with a LOT of goodies the Mighty Puffin phono preamp is super. A lot of features onboard and a few more options per builds. The guy is right there to support you with updates on SW or any question you have. I picked up one with all the trimming and great cables that were seasoned for 500.00. MM, MC and MI carts the little guy supports them all, pretty well. It's not a Herron V2 but if you find one of those. Total jackpot. I have used Thoren and Russco TTs for over 50 year. Russcos are Gerrard killers. Fractional motors with oilers and a gear shifter, how cool is that.. :)

There are some good 49.00 phono stages. The cables and cart match is the key.. Seasoned TT cables sure help too, The more they been used the better they sound, OCC or OFC not so much..

The wife likes her, Dad's Marantz 7C preamp with a built in phono stage and a Gerrard 301. It is so old it drip oil/grease. LOL. I did rebuild everything for her 15 years ago when she got it. Reminds me of an old Harley, marks it's spot.. Bronze MM cart and a Mono Ortofon for her 78s. Lovely sound. Cary V12R power amp and Jenson Imperials for speakers.. Nice system. She still streams more than anything.. She'll actually HISS at you if you get to close to her system.. LOL

I guess our kid will make 3 generation of Marantz and 3 of Mcintosh. Of people, not gear.. The gear is 60+ years old. Good phono stages though.. The Imperials ain't bad either..

Regards
Seasoned cables, are you serious? Or just a 2ch nutjob? IIRC that Puffin had somewhat disappointing measurements.
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
Yea I'm a nut job. Hello to you too. :) Yes, seasoned cables in the phono section. It is one of the REAL reason newbies give up and can't seem to understand. The stylus, low current cables and Patience.

The Puffin just has a LOT of great options and for the price, GOOD options usually cost a lot of money. If I was strictly a vinyl person, (for the money) Herron. The price is going UP, not down on the discontinued V2. There is a reason for that. For an onboard I like my Samra Macs. C11, C20 or C22 (same as C11). I look at the scope reading before and after a rebuild. Whoopee I'm impressed. It does the same thing every time, it sounds good. :) I change TWO valves, not one thing changes on the scope but the sound sure does change. Funny how that is.. Magic I guess. JJs vs Telefunken. I'm sure there is a measurement that makes a difference in voicing. I just KNOW how a valve I've had for 25 years will sound too.. Makes sense to me.. I can remember, that is even better. Yes I live with a tube tester on half the time, so I understand all that Jazz. Boring as hell to tell the truth. I like it when they blow up.. My heart starts workin' better.. LOL Tube fires are COOL. The dog gets pretty excited too.

I like Mcintosh and Krell for HT so what.. YUP a 5.1 Krell, best remote control on earth, that is a remote control for manly men... :)

If I didn't have a pretty good background in NOT fooling myself. I would say drag out all the test equipment you want. I know "when to" in my (retired) profession. I use to maintain drilling equipment, before and after analog to digital conversion. I was the "NULL" king of cables. LOL After OBD2 or > and CANN buss tech. Those skills aren't used so much in my OLD profession, why would I use them NOW.. Heck I can't seem to find a TEC that want to call him/herself a Mechanic. That was the only thing I ever wanted. Scotty the Mechanic at your service.

Sometimes those that aren't so familiar with the concept, of patience, SELL a lot of good gear. I'm not apposed at all. I have a barn and 2 shops full of newer stuff and a lot of older stuff too. Many people thought, what sounded BAD or were a poor match was a couple hundred hours of break in. Some of the CJ with teflon caps is a great example. 2-500 hours after a cap swap, you would think it was a different EVERYTHING, including speakers and power amps..

I'm a Reel to Reel guy too. I suppose the somewhat poor measurements from RtR makes it a poor medium too. The real issue is, is what is still in vaults today worth a crap for the future. It's not a question of measurements it's a matter of preference in the sound to MY ears.

The wife like old bad measuring STUFF to. TRY to pry her 78s out of her hands. Still feisty at 70, pretty good right cross with a news paper too. She want's me to FIX a cassette player up. Good Lord, I told her enough was enough!! I'm also looking for a Cassette player. LOL

I did have an exit physical at work. My ears work great until they don't. My ears aren't broke, the frequency is to high.. Simple fix, simple answer: don't get old!

Yes stuff breaks in. It doesn't burn in, cables sound different, and I like fresh Vanilla extract, I MADE, in my coffee. I like distortion, what can I say. Oh I really like bad measuring speakers too. VMPS is a prime example.. Love the speakers though.. I have a pair of RMx Elixirs, I wouldn't sell or trade them for anything. RM2, 30s, and 40s. They measure pretty bad, but sound pretty good.. LOL I just use a servo bass system and loose the VMPS bass it's Perfect for me. Planars and Ribbons. The only thing better is more planars and ribbons. Strathearns a personal favorite too.

I like Decware's phono stage too. Simple. That's all there is to know about me. I like rabbits and have a goat. There was a chicken revolt and a BBQ shortly there after. Justice is swift, so is propane, just not quite the flavor. :)

Regards
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Squish, my guess since you're using a moving magnet cartridge with it's relatively high output you probably won't notice a difference. Now, if you decide in the future to experiment with low output moving coil cartridges then yes you will be confronted with either an external phono-pre or the insertion of a step up device ahead of the input on your receiver. IMO a good quality phono-pre will offer greater custom configuration for a given cartridge.

FWIW I utilize a Fosgate Signature phono-pre in my rig and I'm completely satisfied
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
Squish, my guess since you're using a moving magnet cartridge with it's relatively high output you probably won't notice a difference. Now, if you decide in the future to experiment with low output moving coil cartridges then yes you will be confronted with either an external phono-pre or the insertion of a step up device ahead of the input on your receiver. IMO a good quality phono-pre will offer greater custom configuration for a given cartridge.

FWIW I utilize a Fosgate Signature phono-pre in my rig and I'm completely satisfied
Thx. If/when I wear out this stylus, I will likely upgrade to a higher Ortofon model. So if they are also MM, I guess that means I am good to go!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thx. If/when I wear out this stylus, I will likely upgrade to a higher Ortofon model. So if they are also MM, I guess that means I am good to go!
The cartridge, if you're just upgrading stylus assembly like Ortofon offers, would remain an MM cartridge....
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top