External amplification??

N

Ngpaw

Audioholic Intern
Good morning all , I had a marantz 7012 avr go bad on me a while back. And i replaced it with with a Yamaha a6a about 4 months ago.

I don’t know the reason for the failure of the marantz , but sure as hell don’t want to repeat it with the Yamaha.
So am I in need of external amplification to avoid damage to the avr , but also am I anywhere close to needing more power or am I just paranoid and the receiver is doing fine on it’s own ( and no external amp needed )
So I am using.
all definitive technology speakers
9080 tower fronts
9080 center
9080 surrounds back
9040 surrounds sides
SVS BP 2000 X 2
All of the speakers have a sensitivity of 92db.
The room size is 22 X 13
8 feet floor to ceiling
Listening from 13 ft
Thank you all in advance
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Good morning all , I had a marantz 7012 avr go bad on me a while back. And i replaced it with with a Yamaha a6a about 4 months ago.

I don’t know the reason for the failure of the marantz , but sure as hell don’t want to repeat it with the Yamaha.
So am I in need of external amplification to avoid damage to the avr , but also am I anywhere close to needing more power or am I just paranoid and the receiver is doing fine on it’s own ( and no external amp needed )
So I am using.
all definitive technology speakers
9080 tower fronts
9080 center
9080 surrounds back
9040 surrounds sides
SVS BP 2000 X 2
All of the speakers have a sensitivity of 92db.
The room size is 22 X 13
8 feet floor to ceiling
Listening from 13 ft
Thank you all in advance
Are you assuming that lack of power was the reason for failure? At what level do you listen at? Assuming that your speakers are a few dbs off in sensitivity 89 or 90 isn't low, Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.59 ohms at 365 Hz and a phase angle of –47.01 degrees at 208 Hz. That phase angle will be destructive if 1) you don't have good cooling 2) push the amplifier extremely hard
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Good morning all , I had a marantz 7012 avr go bad on me a while back. And i replaced it with with a Yamaha a6a about 4 months ago.

I don’t know the reason for the failure of the marantz , but sure as hell don’t want to repeat it with the Yamaha.
So am I in need of external amplification to avoid damage to the avr , but also am I anywhere close to needing more power or am I just paranoid and the receiver is doing fine on it’s own ( and no external amp needed )
So I am using.
all definitive technology speakers
9080 tower fronts
9080 center
9080 surrounds back
9040 surrounds sides
SVS BP 2000 X 2
All of the speakers have a sensitivity of 92db.
The room size is 22 X 13
8 feet floor to ceiling
Listening from 13 ft
Thank you all in advance
Do you know what the failure was in your Marantz 7012? If it was a power amp failure, that would be significant information. Secondly how loud to you play the rig?

Information on Def Tech speakers is sparse, But it does have a low impedance in the major power band with an adverse phase angle as documented by one reviewer.

I think receivers have become even more problematic. Both of those receivers have NINE power amps is the case. I guess most members here think that is fine. I think it is simply a terrible idea to pack 9 amps in one case, from one power supply. Yamaha do not even dare give an impedance with the one solitary power spec. The conclusion I draw from that is that it is not fit for publication in print.

The Marantz has a power rating to 6 ohms two channels driven.

Although your speakers quote a nominal impedance of 8 ohms, that is a totally useless bogus spec. The minimal impedance is much nearer the actual impedance.

I personally do not use receivers, and never would. To me they are a concept that scream expensive trouble. So my advice is that unless you play your rig at low levels, external amplification is strongly advised.
 
N

Ngpaw

Audioholic Intern
yes , I am just assuming lack of power was the issue . Was quoted 500 to fix but felt more comfortable to go new with a 5 year warranty. So now , running this 7.2.2 setup , I have no idea how much power is where . Depending on SQ volume could be -15db for movies
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
yes , I am just assuming lack of power was the issue . Was quoted 500 to fix but felt more comfortable to go new with a 5 year warranty. So now , running this 7.2.2 setup , I have no idea how much power is where . Depending on SQ volume could be -15db for movies
What did the quote say was the reason? If you ran the auto setup, -15db isn't incredibly loud most would consider it moderate. Space above any amplifier is a must, whether they are in the AVR or not when using anything other then Class D. amplification, and then it is good practice.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
A 200 watt X 5 amp good enough???
Slow down, you're putting the cart before the horse. 200wpc isn't gonna change things other then it's an external amplier which has the benefit already described. Power wise it's not much different then what you have. TLS and mentioned the phase angle and the impedence, wattage isn't your problem. I haven't heard about these speakers being amp busters sooo...

Understanding the original failure will help with us helping you.
 
N

Ngpaw

Audioholic Intern
Not exactly sure of the issue, I do remember him saying that the volume was on the floor and he needed to find out why.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Not exactly sure of the issue, I do remember him saying that the volume was on the floor and he needed to find out why.
Is it not possible to find out? If not and you want to be safe and just purchase external amplification, what's your budget? Do you want just the front 3 on their own amps, since they get all the demand (unless you've been playing around with all channel stereo or 7 channel stereo, whatever Yamaha calls it, which would be demanding on any amp)?
How do you have your crossovers set and how are you running the .life channel, just the subs or subs and front speakers?

Details are your friend
 
N

Ngpaw

Audioholic Intern
I am not expecting much from the ext amp , other than giving the speakers dedicated power and hopefully longevity to the AVR, I have read and I think I understand the doubling of watts for 3 db more of volume.
I am by all means a novice at this and 60 years of age. Was looking to be one and done but the marantz changed all that. So I am just trying to be headache free way down the road
 
N

Ngpaw

Audioholic Intern
When listening to music usually in multi channel listening. My thoughts are for the monolith 5x200 price , warranty, and build
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
When listening to music usually in multi channel listening. My thoughts are for the monolith 5x200 price , warranty, and build
Either of their amps class AB or their Class D would be fine choices for stable amps. When you say multi channel music are you using the setting I described above or are you using Dolby, DTS, SACD, etc.? Personally I'd buy the class D from them for two reasons, 1)weight 2) weight.
 
N

Ngpaw

Audioholic Intern
It has something called a sound program gives you different sound stages. Stereo, multi channel and a bunch of others
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
It has something called a sound program gives you different sound stages. Stereo, multi channel and a bunch of others
I'm try to help but, specifics matter. Again, if you are using 5ch or 7ch stereo or party mode whatever Yamaha calls it (not Dolby or DTS upmixers or SACDs) that is their, as in their own proprietary, "all channel stereo", it's gonna be hard on amps at moderate volume.
 
N

Ngpaw

Audioholic Intern
Your help is much appreciated… I believe I will purchase a amplifier. I get 30 days to check it out . So proof is in the pudding as they said .
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
When listening to music usually in multi channel listening. My thoughts are for the monolith 5x200 price , warranty, and build
Can you clarify listening in multi channel listening? If you mean multi channel stereo then that is a receiver buster and should NEVER be used, especially with a nine channel receiver, as that sends significant power to all channels.

I would think that a good external amp for the front three speakers would be good insurance, and 200 watt per channel should be adequate.

If you are not married to those Def Techs you could consider selling them and get something different. Those speakers are not stellar on any account.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It has something called a sound program gives you different sound stages. Stereo, multi channel and a bunch of others
Sound stage is something baked into a recording and how your speakers/room play it back to you. You have a lot of sound modes, including a mode that is just duplicating the stereo signal through each pair of L/R speakers (mains, surrounds of all sorts) and summed to center, but this isn't a surround mode like I'd use (if upmixing from 2ch at all). As said, this multich stereo mode is generally harder on an amp, due in part to the general nature of some surround speakers (positioning and sensitivity and capability). Personally I really dislike multi-ch stereo modes, altho can be useful in a party situation where it's just not possible to appreciate a 2ch stereo or surround-style stereo presentation, but generally it'll either be 2ch as recorded or multich surround as recorded, maybe 2ch upmixed to a surround mode. Surround mode just doesn't demand as much of the surround speakers, most of it remains with the mains.
 
H

Holmz

Enthusiast
If you don’t want the amps then an AVP is an AVR without the amps inside.

A three channel is probably good for the front, and then one could use a 5 channel for powering the rears or run XLRs or RCAs and use a 2 channel amp for the rears.
Or wuith an AVR just use the built in amps as the amount of sound on the surrounds in generally not as high.

I added a HT on top of an existing 2 channel system. So I use the stereo amp for LF/RF. and just added a cheap AIYAMA for the center channel and another one in the rear for the LS/RS.

You options are pretty endless, and if it is already wired for the channels to one location, then a 5 channel makes sense.

There are many ways to skin a cat, but my AVP has no built in amps, so I needed to add amps to the new center and rear surround channels.
 

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