External amp for my receiver

[Don M]

I want to replace my failed flagship Denon receiver. I was considering a Denon 3800 and getting an external amp to run my 3 front dynaudio audence 72s. The 2 mains are 4 ohm and the center is 6 ohms. I know nothing about external amps and how much power I need. The dynaudios are rated at just over 200w max but I do not listen at reference levels. What exactly should I consider to drive my speakers?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I want to replace my failed flagship Denon receiver. I was considering a Denon 3800 and getting an external amp to run my 3 front dynaudio audence 72s. The 2 mains are 4 ohm and the center is 6 ohms. I know nothing about external amps and how much power I need. The dynaudios are rated at just over 200w max but I do not listen at reference levels. What exactly should I consider to drive my speakers?

What’s the failed flagship Denon AVR?

Most people recommend a 200WPC amp.

 

[Verdinut]

I want to replace my failed flagship Denon receiver. I was considering a Denon 3800 and getting an external amp to run my 3 front dynaudio audence 72s. The 2 mains are 4 ohm and the center is 6 ohms. I know nothing about external amps and how much power I need. The dynaudios are rated at just over 200w max but I do not listen at reference levels. What exactly should I consider to drive my speakers?

Possibly you might not need to get external amplification with Audience 72's since you don't listen at high SPLs. I suggest that you try driving them with the purchased AVR. Then if you find that its amplification struggles to drive your speakers adequately at your listening sound levels, you could decide to look for a suitable 3 channel amp or other amplification setup.

 

[TLS Guy]

I want to replace my failed flagship Denon receiver. I was considering a Denon 3800 and getting an external amp to run my 3 front dynaudio audence 72s. The 2 mains are 4 ohm and the center is 6 ohms. I know nothing about external amps and how much power I need. The dynaudios are rated at just over 200w max but I do not listen at reference levels. What exactly should I consider to drive my speakers?

Are you using a subwoofer? I ask as I know those Dynaudio drivers with the 2.5" VCs well. I have used them in a number of designs when you could buy the drivers. I have four of them in my surround speakers. They are nice drivers, but a difficult load and in a 2.5 speaker like yours, they are actually 3.2 ohm speakers below around 60 hz. So, a sub crossed at 80 Hz, would offload the driving amp to an extent. Apart from the tuning peak they don't actually reach 4 ohms until 250 Hz. I would think those speakers are tough for a receiver to drive. Mine are driven by a 250 watt per channel amp (Quad 909). So an amp around 200 watts per channel would be recommended.

Yes, I think if you drive those speakers with a receiver, you will be replacing them at regular intervals. So I would recommend a good three channel amp. Something like this would be suitable.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd also just use the avr to start. The 3800 isn't significantly different amp power wise from even their flagships, maybe 1.5 dB in such case. If you do get external amps I'd generally look to at least double the avr power, which is still only a 3dB advantage generally. If you're reasonable with the volume control doubtful you will hurt anything particularly.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'd also just use the avr to start. The 3800 isn't significantly different amp power wise from even their flagships, maybe 1.5 dB in such case. If you do get external amps I'd generally look to at least double the avr power, which is still only a 3dB advantage generally. If you're reasonable with the volume control doubtful you will hurt anything particularly.

I know those Dynaudio drivers very well, and in 2.5 way configuration they will spell death to any receiver. They are really nice speakers, but if you use two of them, then a robust amp is mandatory. Although a crossover no lower than 80 Hz will help. But it is well known that if you are using more than one of those drivers, with that motor system, then you need a robust amp. Dynaudio made a range of nice drivers using that motor system. It is a really good robust motor system and they and the Morel drivers, which are virtually identical and use the same motor system, are among my favorite drivers. The Morel drivers are readily available to DIY designer/builders. I use six of them in my in wall system. So they are powered by Quad 909s, which are more then up to the task. The 2.5" VCs make them very powerful drivers.

 

[lovinthehd]

I know those Dynaudio drivers very well, and in 2.5 way configuration they will spell death to any receiver. They are really nice speakers, but if you use two of them, then a robust amp is mandatory. Although a crossover no lower than 80 Hz will help. But it is well known that if you are using more than one of those drivers, with that motor system, then you need a robust amp. Dynaudio made a range of nice drivers using that motor system. It is a really good robust motor system and they and the Morel drivers, which are virtually identical and use the same motor system, are among my favorite drivers. The Morel drivers are readily available to DIY designer/builders. I use six of them in my in wall system. So they are powered by Quad 909s, which are more then up to the task. The 2.5" VCs make them very powerful drivers.

You and your death of receivers....he says he isn't listening at reference volume, but isn't providing much in that department otoh. Then again your 909s aren't particularly powerful either.

 

[TLS Guy]

You and your death of receivers....he says he isn't listening at reference volume, but isn't providing much in that department otoh. Then again your 909s aren't particularly powerful either.

Yes, but they are stable into all loads, and provide 150 watts per channel into 8 ohm loads and 250 watts per channel into 4 ohm loads. I would call that powerful amplification. So the two amps in my in wall system deliver 1000 watts, and that is all channels driven. The AV room has over 3000 watts all channels driven.

In Peter Walker's time the BBC only used Quad amps for all situations, and that was a good choice.

 

[Don M]

What’s the failed flagship Denon AVR?

Most people recommend a 200WPC amp.

Denon AVR 5800. 170w per channel. Was way overpowered for my system. Specs say 200+w for my speakers at 4 ohms max. Denon says it puts out 320w at 4 ohms. The amps did not fail the decoder did.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon AVR 5800. 170w per channel. Was way overpowered for my system. Specs say 200+w for my speakers at 4 ohms max. Denon says it puts out 320w at 4 ohms. The amps did not fail the decoder did.

Well I don’t blame you.

But it does seem a little bit “funny” going from a flagship beast to a x3800, which is still very good.

 

[lovinthehd]

Denon AVR 5800. 170w per channel. Was way overpowered for my system. Specs say 200+w for my speakers at 4 ohms max. Denon says it puts out 320w at 4 ohms. The amps did not fail the decoder did.

Good to know....about 25 years use? What failed with the decoder?

 

[Don M]

Well I don’t blame you.

But it does seem a little bit “funny” going from a flagship beast to a x3800, which is still very good.

Once upon a time we had a large house and I spent over $10 grand on a killer system 20 years ago with the Denon flagship receiver and two SVS sonotube passive subs with a 300 w 2 channel amp. We are now retired and moved to AZ. My home now is much smaller and so are my needs. I mainly use it to watch an occassional movie an TV. So I guess "funny" is subjective but needs change as we get older.

 

[lovinthehd]

Once upon a time we had a large house and I spent over $10 grand on a killer system 20 years ago with the Denon flagship receiver and two SVS sonotube passive subs with a 300 w 2 channel amp. We are now retired and moved to AZ. My home now is much smaller and so are my needs. I mainly use it to watch an occassional movie an TV. So I guess "funny" is subjective but needs change as we get older.

FWIW was basing my 1.5dB estimate at newer "flagship" amps in Denon avrs, i.e. more like 150wpc....which would bump it from 1.5dB to 2.1 dB I'd keep using that as a power amp perhaps

 

[Don M]

FWIW was basing my 1.5dB estimate at newer "flagship" amps in Denon avrs, i.e. more like 150wpc....which would bump it from 1.5dB to 2.1 dB I'd keep using that as a power amp perhaps

I wish I could use the amps on the old Denon but since the decoder circuitry isn't working there is no audio output from any of the amps presently. I guess after 20 years it finally said that's enough.

 

[lovinthehd]

I wish I could use the amps on the old Denon but since the decoder circuitry isn't working there is no audio output from any of the amps presently. I guess after 20 years it finally said that's enough.

Then maybe it is the amps, you're using the ext.in inputs (generally amp without dsp) ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Once upon a time we had a large house and I spent over $10 grand on a killer system 20 years ago with the Denon flagship receiver and two SVS sonotube passive subs with a 300 w 2 channel amp. We are now retired and moved to AZ. My home now is much smaller and so are my needs. I mainly use it to watch an occassional movie an TV. So I guess "funny" is subjective but needs change as we get older.

I see. Downsizing. Then I think you are definitely fine with just an AVR like the x3800. No need for more amps.

 

[lovinthehd]

Getting older and listening at lower levels doesn't hurt either.

 

[dlaloum]

In a somewhat similar situation I mated my more basic Integra DRX3.4, with a Crown XLS2500 to drive my mains - the DRX3.4 still drives surrounds and heights.

It was too much for the DRX3.4 on its own, but with the XLS2500 handling front L/R duties the results are excellent.

When I went hunting for the XLS2500 on the used market, I picked it up for US$250...

There are bargains out there!

Lots of choices for good amps - and I also have Quad 606's (earlier version of TLS Guy's Quad 909) - which I highly recommend, but is unlikely to be available at bargain prices in the USA... (if you are in the UK on the other hand....)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

two SVS sonotube passive subs with a 300 w 2 channel amp.

I still use and I’ve used passive subs since I was 18YR old.

I don’t know of many people who use passive subs.

Do you still use passive subs?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Getting older and listening at lower levels doesn't hurt either.

I know what you mean, but I think it will “hurt” until we’re in heaven.