Harry Dewulf Audiophyte Jun 7, 2020 4 0 1 52 Oct 23, 2023 #1 I’m using a 5.1.4 setup on my avr, adding the atmos speakers took the dynamics away so i would like to add a amp for at least my front‘s b&w 702s2, i have never added an seperate amp so some advice would be nice i’m hovering on rotel 1582 mk2 or maybe a rmb 1555 ( 5 channel), or a primare 35.2 for what i have read the marantz delivers 1.2volts output, the primare requires 2v, is that a big deal or too much research ? The lowest input sensitivity is on the 1555 at 1,5v i’m rather skeptical vs class d primare ( in case of needed repairs), or do you think i wouldnt bother about that? where are the experience-oholics amongst you
I’m using a 5.1.4 setup on my avr, adding the atmos speakers took the dynamics away so i would like to add a amp for at least my front‘s b&w 702s2, i have never added an seperate amp so some advice would be nice i’m hovering on rotel 1582 mk2 or maybe a rmb 1555 ( 5 channel), or a primare 35.2 for what i have read the marantz delivers 1.2volts output, the primare requires 2v, is that a big deal or too much research ? The lowest input sensitivity is on the 1555 at 1,5v i’m rather skeptical vs class d primare ( in case of needed repairs), or do you think i wouldnt bother about that? where are the experience-oholics amongst you
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Oct 23, 2023 #2 Harry Dewulf said: I’m using a 5.1.4 setup on my avr, adding the atmos speakers took the dynamics away.... Click to expand... Atmos/Surround speakers probably require no more than 1 Watt of power. So I don't see how Atmos speakers will take away the dynamics of anything. Reactions: ban25, -Jim-, mtrycrafts and 1 other person
Harry Dewulf said: I’m using a 5.1.4 setup on my avr, adding the atmos speakers took the dynamics away.... Click to expand... Atmos/Surround speakers probably require no more than 1 Watt of power. So I don't see how Atmos speakers will take away the dynamics of anything.
isolar8001 Audioholic Field Marshall Jan 11, 2023 1,729 0 36 70 Pittsburgh, Pa. Oct 23, 2023 #3 Harry Dewulf said: I’m using a 5.1.4 setup on my avr, adding the atmos speakers took the dynamics away so i would like to add a amp Click to expand... Adding the Atmos speakers causes the AVR to "resteer" the output accordingly. Sometimes this results in improved dynamics and soundstage...often it does not. Atmos also has a much lower overall output than regular multichannel. You have plenty of power already...adding an amp will accomplish nothing.
Harry Dewulf said: I’m using a 5.1.4 setup on my avr, adding the atmos speakers took the dynamics away so i would like to add a amp Click to expand... Adding the Atmos speakers causes the AVR to "resteer" the output accordingly. Sometimes this results in improved dynamics and soundstage...often it does not. Atmos also has a much lower overall output than regular multichannel. You have plenty of power already...adding an amp will accomplish nothing.
lovinthehd Audioholic Jedi Sep 11, 2012 44,872 0 113 Oakridge, OR Oct 23, 2023 #4 From what I've seen of the testing of pre-out levels of Denon/Marantz avrs, an output of 2V shouldn't be an issue. Why Rotel or Primare amps particularly? Reactions: Harry Dewulf
From what I've seen of the testing of pre-out levels of Denon/Marantz avrs, an output of 2V shouldn't be an issue. Why Rotel or Primare amps particularly?
j_garcia Audioholic Jedi Jul 11, 2005 32,531 0 113 Oct 23, 2023 #5 Is there an SPL issue you are trying to fix by adding an amp?
William Lemmerhirt Audioholic Overlord Jan 8, 2017 12,005 0 113 52 Oct 23, 2023 #6 AcuDefTechGuy said: Atmos/Surround speakers probably require no more than 1 Watt of power. So I don't see how Atmos speakers will take away the dynamics of anything. Click to expand... Well to be fair, the overhead speakers in an Atmos system can be sent full range content. Now most of us are crossed at 80 or 100, but still. The potential is there.
AcuDefTechGuy said: Atmos/Surround speakers probably require no more than 1 Watt of power. So I don't see how Atmos speakers will take away the dynamics of anything. Click to expand... Well to be fair, the overhead speakers in an Atmos system can be sent full range content. Now most of us are crossed at 80 or 100, but still. The potential is there.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Oct 23, 2023 #7 William Lemmerhirt said: Well to be fair, the overhead speakers in an Atmos system can be sent full range content. Now most of us are crossed at 80 or 100, but still. The potential is there. Click to expand... This reminds me of @PENG telling us one time he was listening to the big KEF Blade playing loudly fullrange with McIntosh amps and the watt meter was reading “1W” most of the time. I can’t imagine any tiny ATMOS speakers playing with more power than the giant KEF Blade. If surround speakers were pulling full power concurrently with the mains, then All-Chamnels-Driven (ACD) would be a huge problem in the real world. But we know ACD is NOT a real problem in the real world. Last edited: Oct 24, 2023 Reactions: mtrycrafts
William Lemmerhirt said: Well to be fair, the overhead speakers in an Atmos system can be sent full range content. Now most of us are crossed at 80 or 100, but still. The potential is there. Click to expand... This reminds me of @PENG telling us one time he was listening to the big KEF Blade playing loudly fullrange with McIntosh amps and the watt meter was reading “1W” most of the time. I can’t imagine any tiny ATMOS speakers playing with more power than the giant KEF Blade. If surround speakers were pulling full power concurrently with the mains, then All-Chamnels-Driven (ACD) would be a huge problem in the real world. But we know ACD is NOT a real problem in the real world.
Harry Dewulf Audiophyte Jun 7, 2020 4 0 1 52 Oct 24, 2023 #8 Wow guys, one has too choose it’s words carefully and be fully declared….. i want a better amp than my avr for the fronts, if or if not the atmos channels are the culprit. ( there is a noticeable difference between two channel and multichannel usage) i like to listen to f*ing loud music occasionally , where i hoover between -5 and 0 db, i think my system would perform better with more performing amplification ( yes i know that 250 watts only would add 3db to 2x125watts) .
Wow guys, one has too choose it’s words carefully and be fully declared….. i want a better amp than my avr for the fronts, if or if not the atmos channels are the culprit. ( there is a noticeable difference between two channel and multichannel usage) i like to listen to f*ing loud music occasionally , where i hoover between -5 and 0 db, i think my system would perform better with more performing amplification ( yes i know that 250 watts only would add 3db to 2x125watts) .
Harry Dewulf Audiophyte Jun 7, 2020 4 0 1 52 Oct 24, 2023 #9 lovinthehd said: Why Rotel or Primare amps particularly? Click to expand... perception of quality , dealer in neighborhood….. have looked to apollon hypex amps too, would really have to hear this first… would be nice to try them all at home
lovinthehd said: Why Rotel or Primare amps particularly? Click to expand... perception of quality , dealer in neighborhood….. have looked to apollon hypex amps too, would really have to hear this first… would be nice to try them all at home
TLS Guy Audioholic Jedi Oct 30, 2007 27,299 0 113 79 Eagan MN Oct 24, 2023 #10 Harry Dewulf said: Wow guys, one has too choose it’s words carefully and be fully declared….. i want a better amp than my avr for the fronts, if or if not the atmos channels are the culprit. ( there is a noticeable difference between two channel and multichannel usage) i like to listen to f*ing loud music occasionally , where i hoover between -5 and 0 db, i think my system would perform better with more performing amplification ( yes i know that 250 watts only would add 3db to 2x125watts) . Click to expand... I agree with you. I bet you are right. People here think that AVR are the ultimate Hi-Fi device when they are actually a pox on humanity, and not a sensible construct at all. I use separates throughout on all my three systems. An AVR is never something I would put in any system I designed. I can tell you that Atmos speakers actually do take more power than suggested here. I am powering my Atmos speakers with two Quad 405-2 current dumping amps, which are highly efficient, and yet get significantly warm but not hot driving the Atmos speakers crossed at 120 Hz. Also member here think all the power in the bass, despite the fact I keep telling them they are dead wrong. Almost all the power is between 80 Hz and 2,500 Hz. Most power is required in that range. I would say the majority of speakers are actually deficient in the resources their designers allowed for that range. I design for tons of resources in that pass band. When a system is designed like that it is an absolute revelation and joy, because it reproduces music with proper dynamic and impact. By the way, I would not worry about the reliability of good class D amps now, versus other topologies. Any failure of any amp is likely to present issues. I just use Quad current dumpers, as I knew the designer and owner really well, and have amassed a pretty large collection of his amps. I know my way around them for service. He was a brilliant and very nice sensible chap. All his user manuals carried a clear circuit diagram, and he always published excellent service manuals for all his designs. They are all models of what service manuals should be. Unfortunately he was one of a kind. Fortunately he made huge contributions to the science and art of audio reproduction. Last edited: Oct 24, 2023 Reactions: Harry Dewulf
Harry Dewulf said: Wow guys, one has too choose it’s words carefully and be fully declared….. i want a better amp than my avr for the fronts, if or if not the atmos channels are the culprit. ( there is a noticeable difference between two channel and multichannel usage) i like to listen to f*ing loud music occasionally , where i hoover between -5 and 0 db, i think my system would perform better with more performing amplification ( yes i know that 250 watts only would add 3db to 2x125watts) . Click to expand... I agree with you. I bet you are right. People here think that AVR are the ultimate Hi-Fi device when they are actually a pox on humanity, and not a sensible construct at all. I use separates throughout on all my three systems. An AVR is never something I would put in any system I designed. I can tell you that Atmos speakers actually do take more power than suggested here. I am powering my Atmos speakers with two Quad 405-2 current dumping amps, which are highly efficient, and yet get significantly warm but not hot driving the Atmos speakers crossed at 120 Hz. Also member here think all the power in the bass, despite the fact I keep telling them they are dead wrong. Almost all the power is between 80 Hz and 2,500 Hz. Most power is required in that range. I would say the majority of speakers are actually deficient in the resources their designers allowed for that range. I design for tons of resources in that pass band. When a system is designed like that it is an absolute revelation and joy, because it reproduces music with proper dynamic and impact. By the way, I would not worry about the reliability of good class D amps now, versus other topologies. Any failure of any amp is likely to present issues. I just use Quad current dumpers, as I knew the designer and owner really well, and have amassed a pretty large collection of his amps. I know my way around them for service. He was a brilliant and very nice sensible chap. All his user manuals carried a clear circuit diagram, and he always published excellent service manuals for all his designs. They are all models of what service manuals should be. Unfortunately he was one of a kind. Fortunately he made huge contributions to the science and art of audio reproduction.
lovinthehd Audioholic Jedi Sep 11, 2012 44,872 0 113 Oakridge, OR Oct 24, 2023 #11 Harry Dewulf said: perception of quality , dealer in neighborhood….. have looked to apollon hypex amps too, would really have to hear this first… would be nice to try them all at home Click to expand... Perception of quality as in the aesthetics of the box or something? Haven't dealt with an audio dealer in eons myself (mostly as they just aren't where I am). What would you expect to "hear" from an amp audition?
Harry Dewulf said: perception of quality , dealer in neighborhood….. have looked to apollon hypex amps too, would really have to hear this first… would be nice to try them all at home Click to expand... Perception of quality as in the aesthetics of the box or something? Haven't dealt with an audio dealer in eons myself (mostly as they just aren't where I am). What would you expect to "hear" from an amp audition?
P PENG Audioholic Slumlord Oct 23, 2004 19,797 0 113 Ontario Oct 25, 2023 #12 Harry Dewulf said: perception of quality , dealer in neighborhood….. have looked to apollon hypex amps too, would really have to hear this first… would be nice to try them all at home Click to expand... Based on $/quality "watts", I would say the Apollon Hypex are great choices. Rotel amps typically are good looking though, to me anyway. I would stay away from the Primare amps too. Reactions: Harry Dewulf
Harry Dewulf said: perception of quality , dealer in neighborhood….. have looked to apollon hypex amps too, would really have to hear this first… would be nice to try them all at home Click to expand... Based on $/quality "watts", I would say the Apollon Hypex are great choices. Rotel amps typically are good looking though, to me anyway. I would stay away from the Primare amps too.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Oct 25, 2023 #13 Harry Dewulf said: perception of quality , dealer in neighborhood….. have looked to apollon hypex amps too, would really have to hear this first… would be nice to try them all at home Click to expand... I am sure all the well known brands are equally great - ATI, Anthem, Parasound, Rotel, NAD, Bryston, McIntosh, Krell, etc. Reactions: Harry Dewulf
Harry Dewulf said: perception of quality , dealer in neighborhood….. have looked to apollon hypex amps too, would really have to hear this first… would be nice to try them all at home Click to expand... I am sure all the well known brands are equally great - ATI, Anthem, Parasound, Rotel, NAD, Bryston, McIntosh, Krell, etc.
