Expert Advice Needed For Receiver

[monsterzero2012]

Frequent reader,seldom poster here.

While I have a basic understanding of the hobby I have come to a roadblock and need some advice to help maximize quality of my home theater receiver.Sorry in advance if my questions are noobish.

Im going to be building my new home theater in my 20'X17' mancave.I have a budget between 10-15k.The system will be for:
gaming 40%
movies 35%
lossless music 25%

I have decided upon Goldenear Triton speakers...need to hear the T1s before I decide on which model.

The TV wont be important as im waiting for 4k OLEDs to become affordable in the next couple years.

Now onto the receiver question:

The guys over at Goldenear have been recommending Pioneer Elite receivers to me,however I also want to use an OPPO105 as my audio cornerstone which would require a 7.1 analog input on the receiver in order to utilize the OPPOs DACs.

With 4k resolution out and HDMI 2.0 receivers beginning to surface I want to make my receiver purchase future proof.

So can anyone recommend a receiver and/or separates that have the 7.1 analog inputs AND HDMI 2.0 for the 60 fps?Or am I chasing my tail here?

Also if i connect the audio analog how would I get the video to the TV via 2.0 at the same time?

Or is there a receiver that has internal DACs that can rival the OPPOs,so that I can bypass the OPPO and not sacrifice too much audio quality?

Nothing has been purchased yet so everything(speakers,receiver,TV,BR player.etc...) factors into my budget.

Again sorry if my questions are of the noob variety,but this issue has breached my understanding of the hobby.

 

[agarwalro]

The TV wont be important as im waiting for 4k OLEDs to become affordable in the next couple years.

Now onto the receiver question:

The guys over at Goldenear have been recommending Pioneer Elite receivers to me,however I also want to use an OPPO105 as my audio cornerstone which would require a 7.1 analog input on the receiver in order to utilize the OPPOs DACs.

With 4k resolution out and HDMI 2.0 receivers beginning to surface I want to make my receiver purchase future proof.

So can anyone recommend a receiver and/or separates that have the 7.1 analog inputs AND HDMI 2.0 for the 60 fps?Or am I chasing my tail here?

Now that you are done window shopping, welcome to the club .

IMO, on the 4K@60Hz, HDMI 2.0 front there are very few sources that have an output needing that bandwidth and lesser content still (not counting 'upscaled' video as content) and OLED TV front, a projected viability of 2 years is just that, a projection. Further, the cutting edge nature of HDMI 2.0 receivers in context with the lack of sources and content and your not having a 4K TV makes the up charge unjustified.

Get a good old HDMI 1.4 receiver with 7.1 analog in and robust amp section. Any of the upper mid level receivers will do the trick. Yamaha seems to pack the most robust amp section, Denon and Marantz are more or less the same inside with differences in appearance. In addition to analog in, also add the ability to EQ two subs independently. This will be a better future proof option than HDMI 2.0. I guarantee you will be buying a second sub before the 4K TV .

Also if i connect the audio analog how would I get the video to the TV via 2.0 at the same time?

Or is there a receiver that has internal DACs that can rival the OPPOs,so that I can bypass the OPPO and not sacrifice too much audio quality?

I believe the Oppo HDMI and Analog are active at the same time. You simply set the receiver to use the Analog input rather than digital stream on HDMI.

Oppo 105 owners on AH have preferred to use the Analog 7.1 option even with higher end receivers, so maybe Oppo is doing something right with it's DAC implementation. This choice you will have experience for yourself in your listening environment to determine a preference.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Im going to be building my new home theater in my 20'X17' mancave.I have a budget between 10-15k.The system will be for:
gaming 40%
movies 35%
lossless music 25%

Nothing has been purchased yet so everything(speakers,receiver,TV,BR player.etc...) factors into my budget.

Speaking from my experience after buying and selling many gears over the years, I would take a step back and reexamine the options.

Just let everyone here give a recommendation for their $15K theater.

If you like speakers with built-in subwoofers (to avoid separate subwoofers), I recommend the RBH SX-8300 tower. Each tower has three 8" built-in subwoofers. They can be used as either passive or as active bi-amp to further enhance the bass performance and integration.

For receivers, I recommend a Denon (like the X4000 or it's new successor X4100 or higher end X5200) that has Audyssey XT32 + dual Subwoofer EQ + DEQ. It could independently EQ each of the SX-8300's built-in subwoofers.

I also think the Denon AVR's DAC is at least as good as the DAC in the Oppo in terms of sound quality- assuming neither is implementing EQ to beef up the sound (increase bass, increase sound level, fuller sound). If you want that fuller dynamic lively sound with enhanced bass, the Denon has Audyssey XT32 Dynamic EQ which does an amazing job IMO. Thus, I would just buy a $100-$150 BD player from Panasonic or Sony.

Anyway, that's my POV.

 

[Cos]

As someone who is seriously considering the Triton 1s or possibly the RBH SX/8300rs, I would agree with AcuDefTechGuy and do a listen test.

I am a huge fan of Golden Ear and my Speaker budget is similar to yours in your current built 5-10k. I heard they RBHs and they are amazing speakers, but I have read nothing but good things about the Triton 1s. Key point is read, I would demo them first which my dealer is getting a demo set this week!!

To be honest its going to be extremely difficult to compare since audio memory is only so good, and the closest RBH shop is 1 hour away from my Golden Ear Dealer who is less than a mile away from me.

If I was in your shoes...which I kinda am because I am in process of building my man cave in my house with slightly larger room size.

In your case, the best investment is spent on the speakers, and while you could go the separates route, I would suggest staying with a higher end (more powerful) Receiver like the Denon / Marantz / Anthem, and spend more on speakers. I doubt you will notice much if any difference and speakers tend stay with you a lot longer than the gear driving them.

4K
- Wait for new Denon/Marantz receivers come out (HDMI 2.0 is only 2-3 months away on higher end line of these guys.)
- If the plan is going to go 4K then get a receiver with HDMI 2.0 which is lacking on the X4000.
- The only models that currently offer the HDMI 2.0 feature set for 4k are entry to mid level onkyo and Denon, which while good, will lack the XT32 Audyssey and dual sub EQ.
- Integra (Onkyo Brand) does offer the 50.5, but they have gone proprietary with their room correction, which is why I would never consider them, even though I like my 80.3)

On a side note the Denon/Marantz person at AXPONA Show stated that there is going to be a higher end Denon to bridge the gap between the 4100 and Marantz 7009. I think they have already announced a 5100 series. Its just one more option.

SIDE NOTE: I am a black sheep, I have Integra (Pre/Pro), Paradigm and Golden Ear all of which get no love on these forums

 

[monsterzero2012]

thanks for the input thus far...
I have demo'd the T2s powered with a 60w tube amp and while I wasnt blown away by the bottom end,the mids/highs were crystal clear and the sound stage was magnificent...(a big fan of soundstage here)

The dude over at GE said the T1s will obliterate the T2s,so unless im able to do an a/b comparison right then and there...im pretty much set on the Goldenears.

Here is another question,if I found a good receiver that lacks analog input,but has an analog passthru would that enable the OPPO 105s DAC,as opposed to the receivers circuitry?

RE: the new Marantz 7009 apparently it will do a lot of what im looking for,but having never owned nor demo a Marantz,I dont know if that would make for a good pairing with the GEs.What type of sound signature does Marantz have? I Pioneers have a rep for being kickass for movies,but not so much for music,which is why I really want to integrate the OPPO 105 for music purposes.

RE: 1,4 vs. 2.0....im having to use all my charms to convince the lil lady to allow me to drop said coin for this set-up...I really dont want to invest in a receiver thats 1.4 and then have to go buy another receiver in a cpl years to pair with the new OLED 4ks when they come down from rarified air cost wise.For us enthusiasts it might seem like a no-brainer,but to my S.O. this investment should be a one time thing that will last until were 90

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is what I think regarding GE, DT, RBH with built-in subs.

First, I think the idea of built-in subs is solid for people who just don't want any external subwoofers for any reasons. Any reasons. There are pros and cons, but people want what they want. What are you going to do?

I've owned Def Tech (DT) and I've heard Golden Ear (GE). I think they sound very good. But here are some potential drawbacks:

1. Side-firing subwoofers. This may affect your sound quality if the woofers are too close to the side walls or TV cabinets. Front-firing woofers (RBH) don't have this issue.
2. DT/GE have built-in amps. You have to plug the speakers into the electrical outlet. If the amps malfunction, they will be more difficult to replace. The amp would have to be a specific amp that fits into the speaker. If the amps are backordered for any reason, you will be waiting forever. If the amps are external (RBH), you can easily replace them with any amp. You could spend $200 on a Dayton SA230 amp or $350 on a Dayton SA1000 amp or $290 or a Crown XLS 1000.
3. DT/GE over exaggerate their specs. The Triton 1 may say something like "10Hz-35kHz" FR.

But if you are already set on the speakers, then never mind what I just said.

 

[monsterzero2012]

This is what I think regarding GE, DT, RBH with built-on subs.

First, I think the idea of built-in subs is solid for people who just don't want any external subwoofers for any reasons. Any reasons. There are pros and cons, but people want what they want. What are you going to do?

I've owned Def Tech (DT) and I've heard Golden Ear (GE). I think they sound very good. But here are some potential drawbacks:

1. Side-firing subwoofers. This may affect your sound quality if the woofers are too close to the side walls or TV cabinets. Front-firing woofers (RBH) don't have this issue.
2. DT/GE have built-in amps. You have to plug the speakers into the electrical outlet. If the amps malfunction, they will be more difficult to replace. The amp would have to be a specific amp that fits into the speaker. If the amps are backordered for any reason, you will be waiting forever. If the amps are external (RBH), you can easily replace them with any amp. You could spend $200 on a Dayton SA230 amp or $350 on a Dayton SA1000 amp or $290 or a Crown XLS 1000.
3. DT/GE over exaggerate their specs. The Triton 1 may say something like "10Hz-35kHz" FR.

Im not super concerned with bass,as one can always add a sub or two,or even install some Buttkickers into the furniture if needed.
Soundstage (and imaging to a lesser extent)however isnt something you can just go out and supplement.so how do the DTs perform in that regard?And is there a shop in NYC/Long Island area that carries both that will allow for an a/b demo?

Also im currently living in SE Asia so im not able to go check out these speakers...what is the price point of these in regards to the T2s(3k a pair) or T1s(5k)?

 

[Cos]

This is what I think regarding GE, DT, RBH with built-in subs.

First, I think the idea of built-in subs is solid for people who just don't want any external subwoofers for any reasons. Any reasons. There are pros and cons, but people want what they want. What are you going to do?

I've owned Def Tech (DT) and I've heard Golden Ear (GE). I think they sound very good. But here are some potential drawbacks:

1. Side-firing subwoofers. This may affect your sound quality if the woofers are too close to the side walls or TV cabinets. Front-firing woofers (RBH) don't have this issue.
2. DT/GE have built-in amps. You have to plug the speakers into the electrical outlet. If the amps malfunction, they will be more difficult to replace. The amp would have to be a specific amp that fits into the speaker. If the amps are backordered for any reason, you will be waiting forever. If the amps are external (RBH), you can easily replace them with any amp. You could spend $200 on a Dayton SA230 amp or $350 on a Dayton SA1000 amp or $290 or a Crown XLS 1000.
3. DT/GE over exaggerate their specs. The Triton 1 may say something like "10Hz-35kHz" FR.

But if you are already set on the speakers, then never mind what I just said.

"1. Side-firing subwoofers. This may affect your sound quality if the woofers are too close to the side walls or TV cabinets. Front-firing woofers (RBH) don't have this issue."

I agree, however he has a room size of 20x17, which is not a small room, so I think he should be ok, unless he has a funky setup. ON side note, the GE are rather thin (size not sound) wise compared to the SX-8300 and do not take up as much physical space, though they are damn tall , which makes for a little easier placement. While I would not recommend GE necessarily for a small rom, they do give you ample adjustments on the subwoofer to accommodate for less than perfect rooms (to a degree)


"2. DT/GE have built-in amps. You have to plug the speakers into the electrical outlet. If the amps malfunction, they will be more difficult to replace"

This is a fact, you need to be able to plug the speakers into a wall outlet, so you will need to make sure you can. I will say that the track record for GE is good as my dealer is one of the largest independent dealer for GE in the Midwest and has had minimal issues with service on GE. I asked because he had a pair of Triton 2s in because of a blown driver. GE support is solid.
That also being said, replacing amps on subwoofers sucks, at least for my Seismic 12 Paradigm which I have had to twice

"3. DT/GE over exaggerate their specs. The Triton 1 may say something like "10Hz-35kHz" FR."

I have read your comments on AVS forum in regards to the +-3db not reported on GE's spec sheet and that is valid, but I am pretty sure with the size and power of the improved subs and the quality of their HVFR tweeter, that you will not have a problem with dynamic range.

All valid consideration points which should definitely taken into consideration when looking at the speakers,

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That also being said, replacing amps on subwoofers sucks, at least for my Seismic 12 Paradigm which I have had to twice

That is why I would never buy speakers or subs with built-in amps.

Price is always a factor also. Depending on whom you know, certain speakers may cost you significantly less. If you were ambivalent about 2 speakers (both sound equally great to you) that have identical MSRP, but you could get one of them for 30% less, which would you buy, right?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Im not super concerned with bass,as one can always add a sub or two,or even install some Buttkickers into the furniture if needed.
Soundstage (and imaging to a lesser extent)however isnt something you can just go out and supplement.so how do the DTs perform in that regard?And is there a shop in NYC/Long Island area that carries both that will allow for an a/b demo?

Also im currently living in SE Asia so im not able to go check out these speakers...what is the price point of these in regards to the T2s(3k a pair) or T1s(5k)?

Whichever sounds best to you is right. If there are no RBH dealers for you to audition, then it is irrelevant.

 

[monsterzero2012]

Whichever sounds best to you is right. If there are no RBH dealers for you to audition, then it is irrelevant.

currently there isnt to my knowledge a place in BKK,but i will be in NYC soon so I can check them,hopefully a/b vs GEs