avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Well, I finally had a chance to open up my EP2500 and know some people are interested in pictures. If there is anything else I didn't take a picture of that you want to see or want a closer image let me know as I will be opening it up again to change the fan.

Here are the pics











Lastly, for comparison this is an image from a Crown XLS 202D which is often considered a higher quality amp. (Thanks to WmAx for the pic)



For the record I cannot believe the price to quality on this amp it is simply amazing that Behringer can build these things and sell them for the price they do and yes I realize they stole the design.
 
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mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
thanks for sharing Andrew. good pics! there's a lot more caps on the behringer than the crown.

in fact, the way the fans and heatsinks on the crown are designed is pretty primitive.

edit:

can you take pics of how the air filter is cleaned/removed?
 
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avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
thanks for sharing Andrew. good pics! there's a lot more caps on the behringer than the crown.

in fact, the way the fans and heatsinks on the crown are designed is pretty primitive.

edit:

can you take pics of how the air filter is cleaned/removed?
The Crown unit is clearly not of the same build quality as the EP2500 the name Behringer is the only thing holding back its popularity.

I will take pictures of the fan replacement too. It is a very simple procedure, remove four screws to pull the fan out and then slide the new one back in :). When I get too it (hopefully soon) I will add them to the thread.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
thanks for sharing Andrew. good pics! there's a lot more caps on the behringer than the crown.

in fact, the way the fans and heat sinks on the crown are designed is pretty primitive.

edit:

can you take pics of how the air filter is cleaned/removed?
What the pictures don't make obvious are certain details that are important for consideration.

1) Behringer used mil-spec PC boards (Two copies of the circuit on two isolated copper layers with each component soldered twice - once to each layer - in case one layer cracks or fails. A real possibility when moving around amplifiers often - as is done with pro amps.) The Crown XLS used standard single trace PCBs as you would expect in a consumer electronics unit.

2) The Behringer uses a far better heat removal method that will efficiently use the moving air to remove maximum heat. The Crown XLS wastes the moving air with their design.

3) The Behringer has the heat sink system NOT supported by the PCB. The Crown XLS has the heat sinks mounted/supported by the PCB. This is extra mass with this leverage attached to the PCB with the PCB as the support will make it far more likely for the PCB to crack if dropped when moved(as pro amps often are).

4) The Behringer has a thicker/strong chassis.

5) The Behringer has superior quality binding posts. The Crown XLS posts are very poor -- they do not have holes big enough to accept 12AWG wire -- and they banana receiver holes are larger than standard size. This means to use banana plugs you have to pry apart the banana plug pieces so that they are big enough to fit snugly in the Crown XLS connectors.

It should be noted that the Crown XLS amplifier here is the 202D, the smallest power unit in the XLS line. So don't judge things like power supply size compared to the Behringer. However, all XLS amplifiers use the same chassis and PCB and circuit design. As you can see, this board is not very populated, it has facility to add more transistors/heat sinks to account for the larger XLS amplifier versions.

The Crown XLS amplifiers perform fine for home use where they are not moved around often - and treated like a consumer electronics product. I also expect they measure very well - I am not aware of Crown being deceitful with specifications in the past. But they do not have nearly the same build quality as the Behringer units. This low power XLS 202D (200x2/8 ohms or 300x2/4 ohms) is about the same price as the Behringer EP2500(450x2/80ms or 650x2/4ohm) and yet you get so much lesser build quality with the Crown.

-Chris
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
The Crown XLS-202D pictured has a total of 13,200uF100V (best I can see from the pictures) capacitor bank. The Behringer EP2500 has 96,000uF63V total capacitance, which is over 7 times the uF rating (best I can see from the pictures).:eek: I think I need to use the bathroom, nope, never mind it's a little too late for that.:D

Anyone got the VA ratings for the power supplies in the EP2500 and the XLS-202D?
 
croseiv

croseiv

Audioholic Samurai
Very nice! I love looking at amp/component innards! Thanks for sharing. It looks to be a great product.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Very nice! I love looking at amp/component innards! Thanks for sharing. It looks to be a great product.
There should be an amplifier thread for posting internal pictures of amplifiers and receivers. In fact I may start one.:D
 
zildjian

zildjian

Audioholic Chief
The Crown XLS-202D pictured has a total of 13,200uF100V (best I can see from the pictures) capacitor bank. The Behringer EP2500 has 96,000uF63V total capacitance, which is over 7 times the uF rating (best I can see from the pictures).:eek: I think I need to use the bathroom, nope, never mind it's a little too late for that.:D
Remember though, you can't just compare the microfarads between caps without considering the voltage of the caps.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Remember though, you can't just compare the microfarads between caps without considering the voltage of the caps.
I am aware of that, but the odds are pretty overwhelming. That is why I used uF for the 7 times.;)
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
yup, I'm aware that the crown amp is a lower model, but I was thinking price wise, they should be pretty close.
 
no. 5

no. 5

Audioholic Field Marshall
The Crown XLS-202D pictured has a total of 13,200uF100V (best I can see from the pictures) capacitor bank. The Behringer EP2500 has 96,000uF63V total capacitance, which is over 7 times the uF rating (best I can see from the pictures).:eek:
Remember too that the XLS is a far lower power amplifier than the EP; Crown specs the 202D as 200 Watts 1kHz @ 0.5% THD, the 2500 by comparison is spec'd at 500 Watts 1kHz @ 0.1% THD, both specs being into eight ohms. And the EP is spec'd for two Ohms, whereas the XLS is not. :)
 
R

roshi

Audioholic
Now the big question is: How does it sound?

I had several encounters with Behringer gear in the past (live sound & recording) and none of my experiences were pleasant. So far everything that was touched by a Behringer part (compressors, feedback killers, analog mixer,...) ended up sounding pretty bad. But who knows maybe this one is different....
I've also worked with several Crown amps and they've always been awesome. (I mean those were primarily the Macro-Tech line, but anyways.)

I can see how the parts look better in the Behringer, which leads me to the important question again: How does it sound?

Oh and the other thing: That Crown is the smallest and cheapest amp crown produces and the Behringer is their most expansive one. And by the way the Behringer is 50$ more than the Crown. The Crown Xs500 is in the same price range as the Behringer...

No offense to anybody. Not trying to put anything down, I just had some bad experiences with Behringer and so did a lot of my friends...
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Now the big question is: How does it sound?

I had several encounters with Behringer gear in the past (live sound & recording) and none of my experiences were pleasant. So far everything that was touched by a Behringer part (compressors, feedback killers, analog mixer,...) ended up sounding pretty bad. But who knows maybe this one is different....
I've also worked with several Crown amps and they've always been awesome. (I mean those were primarily the Macro-Tech line, but anyways.)

I can see how the parts look better in the Behringer, which leads me to the important question again: How does it sound?

Oh and the other thing: That Crown is the smallest and cheapest amp crown produces and the Behringer is their most expansive one. And by the way the Behringer is 50$ more than the Crown. The Crown Xs500 is in the same price range as the Behringer...

No offense to anybody. Not trying to put anything down, I just had some bad experiences with Behringer and so did a lot of my friends...
I can not speak for all Behringer products, but of the ones I have used, I have not found any example where any deviation from transparent occurred or even noise injection occurred into audible realm(assuming proper set-up and adjustment) except for an apparently defective set of A500 amplifiers which both distorted at normal volume levels. I have or have had the following Behringer signal process/amplification products:

UB1202 Mixer
Xenxy802 Mixer
CX3400 Crossover
DCX2496 Crossover
EP2500 Amplifier
A500 Amplifier

In fact, in ever case above, the build quality/parts were of far higher quality than what is found on virtually all other products in the same price class.

-Chris
 
R

roshi

Audioholic
In fact, in ever case above, the build quality/parts were of far higher quality than what is found on virtually all other products in the same price class.
-Chris
I guess you can't argue that. No brand-name even comes close to their price class...
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I guess you can't argue that. No brand-name even comes close to their price class...
Behringer simply makes a superior product at the same price as their competitors. The Crown XLS-202D is their lowest model, but at a suggested retail of just $50 short of the EP2500 you would expect more from it than what you get. It isn't even designed well enough to deal with the abuse of typical road gear, and that make since because it is their lowest model. Behringer goes above and beyond that and gets you a product that is durable, inexpensive, and powerful.:)
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I would like to note that the picture of the Crown's innards have disappeared, so anyone reading this thread may be confused and also not know the difference between these similarly priced amplifiers.
 
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