Energy RC-70 or Paradigm Studio 60?

[Warpdrv]

I don't think it's a question of need. By similar logic, why not get the cheapest speakers availible since they play music? Why bother to spend more? Answer: Because I like the improvement in SQ. It comes down to the saying that good is the enemy of great. Like I said in an earlier post, an AVR will drive those speakers and sound good, but a quality amp will make them sound even better. My pool room is not all that big (13' x 24') and both my Studio towers and Signature bookshelf speakers sound better to me with an external amp compared to a Yamaha RXV-2500.

I think what inevitably happens here is that even though the receiver is more then fine to drive those speakers, because they are such smooth and dynamic sounding speakers - In my case I just keep on turning the volume up higher and higher.... They just never seem to get to a point that my ears are hurting whatsoever. So now even in a small room like my bedroom with my Sig S4's I kept pushing it higher and higher and later down the road felt the sound was much better with an external amp that could handle the low ohm loads better and it also gave me a good deal more headroom....

Not everyone likes to run those kinds of levels when listening, but for good movies I love to be able to turn it up, as well as when I'm really getting into 5.1 concerts like David Gilmour live at Royal Albert... I just tend to crank the hell out of it...

 

[Robof83]

I don't think it's a question of need. By similar logic, why not get the cheapest speakers availible since they play music? Why bother to spend more? Answer: Because I like the improvement in SQ. It comes down to the saying that good is the enemy of great. Like I said in an earlier post, an AVR will drive those speakers and sound good, but a quality amp will make them sound even better. My pool room is not all that big (13' x 24') and both my Studio towers and Signature bookshelf speakers sound better to me with an external amp compared to a Yamaha RXV-2500.

The difference is that better speakers will sound better at all listening levels. A better amp will only sound better when the limits of the lesser amp have been reached, which in the case of a small room, would be well beyond what most people would listen at anyway. Thus, most likely, no real SQ improvement could be had by upgrading the amp. There will perhaps be advantages that can be measured, unfortunately they would most likely be inaudible.

 

[PENG]

This sort of debates will never die until DBTs are freely avaiable but that will never happen because dealers have to sell amps. So some people will believe in amps don't improve SQ unless the power is needed and then debate until end of time on when and how much power is needed for a particular setup. Others will continue to believe amps just sound different no matter what the specs say and regardless of room size and listening level etc.

Some time I just wonder why people even bother asking questions that are known to yield all sorts of conflicting response. On the other hand, I guess people won't ask whether different speakers would sound different or not because they know the answers will be invariably be the same or similar.

 

[Robof83]

This sort of debates will never die until DBTs are freely avaiable but that will never happen because dealers have to sell amps. So some people will believe in amps don't improve SQ unless the power is needed and then debate until end of time on when and how much power is needed for a particular setup. Others will continue to believe amps just sound different no matter what the specs say and regardless of room size and listening level etc.

Some time I just wonder why people even bother asking questions that are known to yield all sorts of conflicting response. On the other hand, I guess people won't ask whether different speakers would sound different or not because they know the answers will be invariably be the same or similar.

Often times I think people ask these questions not knowing that they will yield a conflicting response. I know when I first got involved with this hobby, I came on these boards asking for amp recomendations and I even listed SQ as my major concern. I fully believed that all amps sounded different. I had no idea there was a another side to the story. It wasn't until I started doing research on my own and learning what how amps work that I came to my current beliefs.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Paradigm, Energy & all great speakers.

Speaker's manufacturers (not all, but the good ones) built their speakers, for power handling and amplifiers matching, using their favorite amps that mate well with their speakers. And usually, they don't skimp on amplifier power.

They usually test their speakers with excellent power amplifiers. No receivers here.
You can easily verify that, from various quality speaker's manufacturers.

Paradigm usually test their speakers with Bryston amplifiers, and Anthem.

That should be a very good hint now, no?

Also, the people that do listen to their speakers, from both a receiver and a separate power amplifier (like me and many more here at Audioholics), agree in very large number, based on their personal physical lsitening experience, that a separate power amplifier, simply bring more to the table, and that it fill the stomachs of people more generously, with greater overall aural satisfaction.
It's like adding the final course of the dinner, the dessert; country home made hot blueberry apple pie with spumonti Italian ice cream, filled with lines of hot Swiss caramel syrup.

Bob

 

[GO-NAD!]

I don't think it's a question of need. By similar logic, why not get the cheapest speakers availible since they play music? Why bother to spend more? Answer: Because I like the improvement in SQ. It comes down to the saying that good is the enemy of great. Like I said in an earlier post, an AVR will drive those speakers and sound good, but a quality amp will make them sound even better. My pool room is not all that big (13' x 24') and both my Studio towers and Signature bookshelf speakers sound better to me with an external amp compared to a Yamaha RXV-2500.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. If he listens to his system at levels that are well within the parameters of the AVR, he will derive NO SQ improvement by adding an external amp.

It won't be an argument between "good" and "great". It'll be an argument between "good" and "good, with a smaller bank account and an electronic lump sitting in the room gathering dust, loafing along because there's no load on it".

If however, he does listen at volumes that the AVR isn't comfortable with, then sure, get an external amp. I'm all for it. But, as all audioholics should know, throwing money at a HT does not guarantee of improvement.

 

[oppman99]

I guess it comes down to differing opinions. I believe adding an external amp has improved my SQ even at low listening levels. Whether that is really the case is irrelevant. Even if it is psychosomatic I think it sounds better and am happy with my choice. To give another example, I tried out a power conditioner, and yes, I know it should not have any effect on the sound coming from my system, but I didn't like what I heard after adding it. I think a good portion of this hobby is about what we think we hear whether it is true or not. So I think we can agree to disagree.

I will agree with you that throwing money at the problem won't necessarily guarantee an improvement.

 

[JDawg]

Wow I didn't think so many people would have different opinions on if an amp is needed or not. I was a bit confused because I have people telling me an amp is going to make these speakers sound better and others including the salesman I talked to says its not needed and my receiver is good enough. I didn't buy the speakers yet but I'm sure they'll sound good with my receiver.

My room dimensions are 26x16x8 feet but half of that space is the kitchen and the other half my living room where my HT setup is. The kitchen also opens up into a hallway. I don't think my room is that large and I don't listen to music that loud. So whether or not an amp is needed I don't know. But since I didn't buy the speakers yet I will see how they sound first whenever I get them and then go from there. If I can find a cheap used amp later I might consider getting one just to see if it really does make a difference.

 

[Robof83]

Well honestly JDawg, that room is large enough where an amp could be warranted, but I would say only if you plan on listening near reference levels.

 

[Warpdrv]

Well honestly JDawg, that room is large enough where an amp could be warranted, but I would say only if you plan on listening near reference levels.

Agreed, and also adding at listening near ref. levels for extended periods of time.

My room is almost 3 times that size, and open to other areas of the house, in my case, especially for parties when I get the house a rockin and the girls are a bumpin for a few hours straight - no receiver could possibly supply the extended power required for such events...

So it all comes down to the application...

 

[Lordoftherings]

If however, he does listen at volumes that the AVR isn't comfortable with, then sure, get an external amp. I'm all for it. But, as all audioholics should know, throwing money at a HT does not guarantee of improvement.

It's like the saying: Money doesn't create happyness, but it sure helps.

I guess it comes down to differing opinions. I believe adding an external amp has improved my SQ even at low listening levels. Whether that is really the case is irrelevant. Even if it is psychosomatic I think it sounds better and am happy with my choice. To give another example, I tried out a power conditioner, and yes, I know it should not have any effect on the sound coming from my system, but I didn't like what I heard after adding it. I think a good portion of this hobby is about what we think we hear whether it is true or not. So I think we can agree to disagree.

I will agree with you that throwing money at the problem won't necessarily guarantee an improvement.

I agree.
And about money: Same as above.

My room dimensions are 26x16x8 feet but half of that space is the kitchen and the other half my living room where my HT setup is. The kitchen also opens up into a hallway. I don't think my room is that large and I don't listen to music that loud. So whether or not an amp is needed I don't know. But since I didn't buy the speakers yet I will see how they sound first whenever I get them and then go from there. If I can find a cheap used amp later I might consider getting one just to see if it really does make a difference.

That's still counts as a large space to fill. The sound has to travel farther and to the hallway. For me, you have a large room (music space filling speaking).
More amp power = more room space filling, less stress amp.
If you love good food, and eat till you're well fill up, you'll love more power amp.

Well honestly JDawg, that room is large enough where an amp could be warranted, but I would say only if you plan on listening near reference levels.

Agree, it is large. A better amp is faster too, better rhythm, stop quicker and restart with more aplomb. Control itsef with more reassurance.
There is more to just power.

Agreed, and also adding at listening near ref. levels for extended periods of time.

My room is almost 3 times that size, and open to other areas of the house, in my case, especially for parties when I get the house a rockin and the girls are a bumpin for a few hours straight - no receiver could possibly supply the extended power required for such events...

So it all comes down to the application...

Wow! How big is your room Warpdrv? Adding all the openings?

I can relate very well about parties; that's where I blew tweeters and amps too.
Agree too, needs true power amps for these occasions. Same effect than going to the discotheque.

Last sentence says it best. << INDIVIDUAL APPLICATION >>