Enabling a Kitchen Zone 2

D

dzzmiller

Enthusiast
Planning a 7.1.4/6 family room HT system. I want the adjacent open kitchen to have a TV and stereo in-ceiling that mirrors what is playing on the main HT system in the family room.

Tentatively the receiver is Denon 4400H with an additional amp driving the 11 channels needed in the family room. So I have no pre outs remaining for the kitchen speakers. My thought is to run HDMI only to a lower end Denon receiver in the kitchen that will drive the kitchen TV and stereo ceiling speakers. Alternately I could run HDMI directly to the kitchen TV and then run audio out of the TV to the secondary receiver to drive the ceiling stereo pair. Thoughts?

I would rather not buy a 13 channel pre/pro or receiver. I prefer a $1000 HT receiver with 3-7 channels output to a power amp. I will put in six Atmos speakers, even if I can't drive the middle pair with a 4400H class of receiver today. (Denon's attempt to encourage Auro 3D obscures their Atmos capability. I'm betting that Auro 3D is a dead end.)

I prefer Denon/Marantz for my use over Yamaha, based in part on Gene's reviews. But I'm open all brands.
 
D

dzzmiller

Enthusiast
Why cant you use the zone 2 preouts?
The outputs are dual purpose, AFAIK. Zone 2 is used for an overhead channel. Although with Denon and Marantz the documentation is a bit confusing, but I doubt that it is different than Yamaha.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
The outputs are dual purpose, AFAIK. Zone 2 is used for an overhead channel. Although with Denon and Marantz the documentation is a bit confusing, but I doubt that it is different than Yamaha.
The preouts should bypass the amp assignment. So no issues, you just need a small amp and thats it
 
D

dzzmiller

Enthusiast
There are only 11 preamps total. If I use 7 surrounds plus 4 height speakers all the preamps are in use. There is no preamp to do zone 2 in a 7.1.4 config.

In other words, these receivers no longer have a dedicated zone 2 preamp. Preamps are assigned to a task/channel via software.

I could do a 5.1.4 plus a zone 2, but I have a pretty good setup for a back surround channel.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Planning a 7.1.4/6 family room HT system. I want the adjacent open kitchen to have a TV and stereo in-ceiling that mirrors what is playing on the main HT system in the family room.

Tentatively the receiver is Denon 4400H with an additional amp driving the 11 channels needed in the family room. So I have no pre outs remaining for the kitchen speakers. My thought is to run HDMI only to a lower end Denon receiver in the kitchen that will drive the kitchen TV and stereo ceiling speakers. Alternately I could run HDMI directly to the kitchen TV and then run audio out of the TV to the secondary receiver to drive the ceiling stereo pair. Thoughts?

I would rather not buy a 13 channel pre/pro or receiver. I prefer a $1000 HT receiver with 3-7 channels output to a power amp. I will put in six Atmos speakers, even if I can't drive the middle pair with a 4400H class of receiver today. (Denon's attempt to encourage Auro 3D obscures their Atmos capability. I'm betting that Auro 3D is a dead end.)

I prefer Denon/Marantz for my use over Yamaha, based in part on Gene's reviews. But I'm open all brands.
You really don't need a receiver for the kitchen unless:

You want to listen to a different radio station and one room is already using the tuner.

I haven't tried it, but if you want to listen to HEOS in one room and different music using HEOS and another hand-held device in another room, it might not work. I can check that later in the week.

Make sure the TVs have the same resolution, or EDID will rear its ugly head and make the video go away until the resolution of the sources and TVs are dumbed down or you insert an HDMI splitter on the second TV's feed (or find a way to spoof the EDID).

If you want a good amp, don't want to spend a ton and want it to turn on/off automatically, look at Audio Source.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
There are only 11 preamps total. If I use 7 surrounds plus 4 height speakers all the preamps are in use. There is no preamp to do zone 2 in a 7.1.4 config.

In other words, these receivers no longer have a dedicated zone 2 preamp. Preamps are assigned to a task/channel via software.

I could do a 5.1.4 plus a zone 2, but I have a pretty good setup for a back surround channel.
Look at the back of your avr, is there no a zone two analog preout in addition to the main zone preouts?
 
D

dzzmiller

Enthusiast
You really don't need a receiver for the kitchen unless:

You want to listen to a different radio station and one room is already using the tuner.

I haven't tried it, but if you want to listen to HEOS in one room and different music using HEOS and another hand-held device in another room, it might not work. I can check that later in the week.

Make sure the TVs have the same resolution, or EDID will rear its ugly head and make the video go away until the resolution of the sources and TVs are dumbed down or you insert an HDMI splitter on the second TV's feed (or find a way to spoof the EDID).

If you want a good amp, don't want to spend a ton and want it to turn on/off automatically, look at Audio Source.
I have a couple of spare receivers so I don't need to buy an amp, but I wonder what happens when I connect HDMI from the main receiver to HDMI in of the kitchen reciever. Does that work? Good point on resolution. The kitchen TV will be ~40", so it could go either 4K or 1080P. Its probably safer to buy a 4K.
 
D

dzzmiller

Enthusiast
Look at the back of your avr, is there no a zone two analog preout in addition to the main zone preouts?
Yes, but the documentation says that if the receiver is set up for 11 main channels that there is no zone 2. Yamaha gets around this by dropping a main height channel if the user turns on zone two. But I don't think Denon has implemented that kind of function.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Will main and zone 2 play the same digital content in the first place?
 
D

dzzmiller

Enthusiast
Will main and zone 2 play the same digital content in the first place?
Yes, although I may want the main zone to be off and zone 2 on. I've never used more than one TV connected to a receiver, so I'm trying to get a handle on potential problems.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I have a couple of spare receivers so I don't need to buy an amp, but I wonder what happens when I connect HDMI from the main receiver to HDMI in of the kitchen reciever. Does that work? Good point on resolution. The kitchen TV will be ~40", so it could go either 4K or 1080P. Its probably safer to buy a 4K.
I haven't connected HDMI from one receiver to another, but in theory, the one sending the signal should see the other as a display since the input doesn't have the associated circuits to act as an HDMI output.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I cant understand why you dont use the zone two preouts? They work and you can use your older gear for the power. Just because you use the speaker terminals that would be used for internally powered zone 2 for the main zone does not effect zone2 preouts. Problem solved posts ago...
 
D

dzzmiller

Enthusiast
I cant understand why you dont use the zone two preouts? They work and you can use your older gear for the power. Just because you use the speaker terminals that would be used for internally powered zone 2 for the main zone does not effect zone2 preouts. Problem solved posts ago...
The main front speaker pre out would not be a fixed gain. The volume of zone 2 would be dependant on the volume of the main front channels. The zone 2 pre out would have the signal from a surround channel with 7.1.4 selected. There is no pre out to use for zone to with 7.1.4 selected. You are welcome to read the manual: http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/EU/EN/
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Im not confused. Hook up zone 2 preout and you play main zone or another source. The volume is seperate not dependent. Zone 2 preouts have zero to do with the main zone speakers. Ill draw a diagram if needed
 
D

dzzmiller

Enthusiast
Im not confused. Hook up zone 2 preout and you play main zone or another source. The volume is seperate not dependent. Zone 2 preouts have zero to do with the main zone speakers. Ill draw a diagram if needed
What is you AVR model?
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
What is your Denon/Marantz configuration?
Im not using either in my personal setup. Have installed several mid/high D&Ms as well as others. Have done multi zone audio for a very long time
 
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