AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Emotiva's handling your amp failure was less than brilliant.
If Emo wants to be like ATI, Bryston, Anthem, etc., and they are able to repair their own amps under warranty, then they should repair their own amps out of warranty.

If they want to be like Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Sony, etc., then they should have authorized Emo repair centers for both warranty and out-of-warranty amps.

Now if they just absolutely cannot repair an amp due to unavailable parts, that’s not their fault and everyone would understand.

But to FLAT-OUT refuse to repair their own amps out of warranty (when they do repair their own amps under warranty) is unsound. :D

They’re telling the world that they don’t even trust their own products and don’t care about service. Period.

How can ATI offer 7YR warranty and Bryston offer 20YR warranty, but Emo cannot repair their own amps if their amps are 5 years and 1 day old? :D

The warranty on their cheaper amps (like their $839 125W x 5CH amp) is 3YR, not 5YR.
 
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RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
If Emo wants to be like ATI, Bryston, Anthem, etc., and they are able to repair their own amps under warranty, then they should repair their own amps out of warranty.

If they want to be like Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Sony, etc., then they should have authorized Emo repair centers for both warranty and out-of-warranty amps.

Now if they just absolutely cannot repair an amp due to unavailable parts, that’s not their fault and everyone would understand.

But to FLAT-OUT refuse to repair their own amps out of warranty (when they do repair their own amps under warranty) is unsound. :D

They’re telling the world that they don’t even trust their own products and don’t care about service. Period.
I think the ground has been well covered.
Emotiva has moved to assembly (and some manufacturing) to the US and changed from classic transformer based A/B to lighter SMPS based A/B.
I suspect they have neither the parts nor the expertise in house to repair Gene's amp.
Still, I agree that they should have a 3'rd party repair relationship for their customers.

I have noted that your "dead 8 YR old Denon AVP-A1HDCI" was not repaired. Doubtless, you could have found a repair shop but it is an open-ended repair.
This is more troubling for amps since they should last longer. I have a Sunfire Cinema in another location that is running fine after 20 years.
I don't expect that from most products, but perhaps my AHB2's but perhaps. I think I might expire in less than 30 years :p

I have had my XMC-1 for about 5 years. The trade-in credit is approximately $2000 credit for an upgrade to an RMC-1 or RMC-1L. Not bad.

The XMC-2 and RMC-1 have a Reference Stereo mode which is excellent but I don't need because have a Benchmark LA4 for 2-channel.
The architecture good with separate DACs per channel fully balanced. I like using hardware for performance and not for legacy features and extra zones.
In reality, there are much better ways to have multizone audio than running wires from a central processor. Roon and J River both provide multi-zone streaming.
Denon/Marantz has HEOS.

The HTP-1 has Roon and is reported to be fully balanced as well.
The designer has from transformer PS back to using a SMPS to reduce noise.
This is good to hear as it is an indicator that the goal is SOA performance.

We are days away from CEDIA and their will be additional announcements concerning the HTP-1.
Honestly, if this unit is fully balanced, cold-boots in 30 seconds or less, has S/N > 100 dB with processing engaged, I am going to give it a serious look.

Hopefully, Emotiva and Monoprice will include published specifications that include: S/N and bandwidth with and without processing, output voltage measurements at 2.0 volts RCA and 4 volts XLR, etc.

- Rich
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
It's easy to get upset when something doesn't go your way especially in my case where I had totally no fault in it. I really had to step back for a bit and just reset my view.

I don't want to derail this thread either. I hope Emotiva has good luck with the XMC-2 and I think they will with time.
Definitely appreciate your post because most of us were unaware that Emo did not support their product after warranty.
I have to wonder if they actually perform repairs of in warranty products or simply replace them (maybe replace the amp channel modules for the amps with a card for each channel).
One thing that does surprise me is that they did not offer you a new unit at something like a 25-30% discount as a simple show of good will. That may or may not have appealed to you, but at least it would be something. They would still make money off of the resale and increase their odds of keeping a loyal customer.
That is not the ideal solution, but if they are dead set against supporting their products after warranty, it just seems like good business to offer a discount to your customers.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
It was stupid TBH. Based on this experience, and the fact I haven't had a single Emotiva product last more than 5 years that I've owned, it saddens me to say that I won't be reviewing or recommending their gear anymore on this website. I hope they re-evaluate their out of warranty service to their customers in the future.
That is one hell of a testimony! I am inclined to assume most of these products were power amps which I think of as 20 year lifespan items.
But to also not offer out of warranty service for simple amps (there have been some innovations, but I don't think they qualify as requiring a particularly specialized technician to do repairs - my understanding is Emotiva was generally using tried and true technology for their amps)!
It is easier to stomach their policy for a pre-pro which is pretty complex and probably a nightmare to troubleshoot. But then again in this day and age, you really don't have to find the faulty component so much as doing some checks of the boards and replacing parts on a modular level rather than item by item.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Emotiva has moved to assembly...I suspect they have neither the parts nor the expertise in house to repair Gene's amp.
If they can’t even repair a relatively “simple” amp (compared to a complex AVP), should anyone trust them to build a 16CH AVP?

And will they service their 16CH AVP after the 3YR warranty runs out? :D
 
RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
If they can’t even repair a relatively “simple” amp (compared to a complex AVP), should anyone trust them to build a 16CH AVP?

And will they service their 16CH AVP after the 3YR warranty runs out? :D
I have had an XMC-1 for years with no issues.

- Rich
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
5 years for a pre-pro still isn't even up to what ADTG got out of his fancy Denon. Time will tell.
Don’t forget about Grassy’s AVP-A1HDCI that also malfunctioned after 8 years (he now has a McIntosh AVP).

And just one person doesn’t represent everyone else. Gene never had an issue with his AVP-A1HDCI, which he sold and got the Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5000.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
5. I mentioned that before. Did Denon service your 8 year old AVP?

- Rich
Yeah. With Best Buy store warranty.

So technically, it was serviced under warranty. And those idiots at Panurgy still couldn’t fix it. One once, but TWICE!

So the Denon AUTHORIZED repair place couldn’t fix it both times under full Best Buy store warranty.
 
C

cgarlock

Junior Audioholic
Definitely appreciate your post because most of us were unaware that Emo did not support their product after warranty.
I have to wonder if they actually perform repairs of in warranty products or simply replace them (maybe replace the amp channel modules for the amps with a card for each channel).
One thing that does surprise me is that they did not offer you a new unit at something like a 25-30% discount as a simple show of good will. That may or may not have appealed to you, but at least it would be something. They would still make money off of the resale and increase their odds of keeping a loyal customer.
That is not the ideal solution, but if they are dead set against supporting their products after warranty, it just seems like good business to offer a discount to your customers.
Now that you mention it, there was zero offer of a discount or anything to help out. All they would offer is to put me on the pre-order list for the XMC-2 because I wasn't interested in the RMC-1. I actually thought that was a bit of a cash grab by EMO. You bring out the flagship preamp with the future promise of scaled back units even though they are all developed along the same base platform. There are a few differences for sure, but overall according to the reps I spoke with the RMC-1 lite and the XMC-2 contain 95% of the same circuitry design. The big RMC just having more channels, more future expansion and a few other bells and whistles that I would have never needed. I'm not a business owner so I'm sure there are reasons I don't understand for doing it that way.

It is very sad now because I am gone as a customer for them. I loved that XMC-1 right up until that thunderstorm rolled through but now I'm even more happy with the Yamaha 5200.

I can also add on a positive note that my two EMO amps that survived have been pushed a little over the weekend and showed no signs of failure or degradation. I have to type that because if I say it out loud I know my bad luck will kick in and they will stop working tonight.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Don’t forget about Grassy’s AVP-A1HDCI that also malfunctioned after 8 years (he now has a McIntosh AVP).

And just one person doesn’t represent everyone else. Gene never had an issue with his AVP-A1HDCI, which he sold and got the Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5000.
I remember there was another. Doesn't mean all Denons are the same either. Your Yamaha could have issues, too. Just depends what train you want to wave from to an extent....you're just waving on the Yamaha train for now :)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I remember there was another. Doesn't mean all Denons are the same either. Your Yamaha could have issues, too. Just depends what train you want to wave from to an extent....you're just waving on the Yamaha train for now :)
Yeah, only time will tell, for sure. I guess everything starts out perfect. :D
 
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