Emotiva - too good to be true...

[itschris]

Well I noticed they now have the release date for the LMC-2 listed as "early summery." WTF! I have a feeling this is gonna be just another one of those situations where we'll be waiting and waiting. I'm sure once "early summer" roles around, it'll be "late summer" when it comes out.

Sucks. I was hoping to buy one of these. I can't wait around hoping companies put stuff out when they say so I can spend my money on them. Oh well, looks like I'm back to searching for a pre/pro or receiver again.

I guess I'll start thinking about the Pioneer Elite again.

 

[GlocksRock]

The Yamaha RX-V1800 is a very nice receiver/pre/pro for the money

 

[rnatalli]

The delay at Emotiva is a result of delays at Cirrus from what I understand. The new chips being used in the LMC-2 are still pending approval from Dolby and DTS; so it isn't Emotiva's fault. Lonnie posted a very clear and revised timetable for the LMC-2 release. I for one have no problem waiting a little longer to get the latest and greatest especially at 40% off. If you can't wait, the Yammie 663 is a good pick for use as a pre.

Here's Lonnie's post for anyone interested in the timetable:

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=updates&action=display&thread=1205336857

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well I noticed they now have the release date for the LMC-2 listed as "early summery." WTF! I have a feeling this is gonna be just another one of those situations where we'll be waiting and waiting. I'm sure once "early summer" roles around, it'll be "late summer" when it comes out.

Sucks. I was hoping to buy one of these. I can't wait around hoping companies put stuff out when they say so I can spend my money on them. Oh well, looks like I'm back to searching for a pre/pro or receiver again.

I guess I'll start thinking about the Pioneer Elite again.

We all know that feeling!

Summer seems like an eternity when you are eagerly awaiting. So we're looking at 2.5 - 3 months?

Man, that hurts.

Maybe this will give us more time to debate which system is best for you?

 

[itschris]

I just wish companies would give realistic release dates. If it's gonna be 6 months, just tell me. Don't tell me three, knowing I'll be more likely to hang in there, only to delay with the hope that the person waited this long already, they'll probably wait a little longer. That's just not how I like things done.

Whatever. I'm sure there's all sorts of reasons this piece won't be out when promised. it doesn't matter. In the end, you just gotta go with what works best for you at the time. So for me, I'd rather just spend a few extra hundred bucks and get something I know works and is available and not just on the "hopefully someday" list.

BAck to the drawing board.

 

[Matt34]

I just wish companies would give realistic release dates. If it's gonna be 6 months, just tell me. Don't tell me three, knowing I'll be more likely to hang in there, only to delay with the hope that the person waited this long already, they'll probably wait a little longer. That's just not how I like things done.

Whatever. I'm sure there's all sorts of reasons this piece won't be out when promised. it doesn't matter. In the end, you just gotta go with what works best for you at the time. So for me, I'd rather just spend a few extra hundred bucks and get something I know works and is available and not just on the "hopefully someday" list.

BAck to the drawing board.

When you have to outsource components it's sometimes just out of your hands. If companies didn't give you a lead time people would complain, if you do and it gets delayed.......damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Daniel331]

Some companies don't tell you anything until the product it's actually being released. Also, a lot of companies don't even maintain a forum on their websites so that you can inquire about their products in semi-real time. You're just stuck with using e-mail or calling customer service for that and good luck getting some straight answers using those methods. At least Emotiva's saying something. BTW, Outlaw is dead silent on their next gen. pre/pro offering.

My $0.02 cents.

 

[itschris]

I know, I know. I'm just disappointed. I was all ready to get this new setup all put together and now this monkey wrench really puts me in a bind. More than anything, I love the way the Emotiva looks - knowing it's already a quality component. I just gotta search for something that looks just as good, will be just as good of quality, for not an obscene amount more. I know I'm gonna pay more, but it was nice getting something of such great quality for such a great price. I was considering an Anthem earlier today while I was stewing about this, but I just don't want to spend thousands of dollars. I think I'm leaning back towards the Elite.

 

[Nomo]

Considering the features on the Emo, it might just be worth waiting for.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=388743#post388743

If not, I second Glock's 1800 recommendation.

 

[mike c]

So the bottom line is we now expect to ship them June. I know, I know, I feel the same way, but for those who are waiting let me give you some info on what you will get. 4) HDMI inputs and 1) HDMI output. 4) each composite and s-video inputs, 3) component inputs and all will be scaled and set out over HDMI at whatever resolution you want up to 1080p. It also has DVI and VGA inputs which will be scaled and piped out the HDMI as well. Full color graphical OSD on HDMI. Auto room correction with User definable EQs. 4) analog audio inputs (not counting the 7.1 analog input), 4) coaxial inputs, 3) optical inputs and both coax and optical digital audio outputs. You will also get a continuous 2 channel mix down of the audio on a fixed output level, as well as variable and independent Zone 2 output and an analog record output. It has a built in AM/FM tuner, trigger output, IR in and outputs as well as iPOD connectivity and USB for complete flash upgrades (no need to ever send it in for an update), and one last input for the included calibration microphone. The front panel as most of you have seen has a 2) line dot matrix display, the ever popular knob (with blue halo lighting) and a full quadrant control on the left hand side (also with blue halo lighting). The menu structure is deep and allows for assigning the inputs, selecting default modes per input. It will have all the latest and greatest HD formats including DTS-MA. I hope to have screen shots of the OSD and a full list of features very soon, so stay tuned.

the features are spectacular, bu that's just too long.

 

[itschris]

Looking back at the feature list of the Pioneer Elite 94, I can't think of anything else they could possibly add. From everything I've read, the only big gripe seems to be the lack of a fancy menu system.

Something I never really thought about... if I'm using the preamp outs to run my Sunfire Amp, can I still use the internal Pioneer amps? Also, I'm thinking I might bi-wire the Def Tech 7002's and use a couple channels of the poineer to run the surrounds. Seems like the power doesn't have to totally go to waste because I have a seperate amp. Thoughts?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Looking back at the feature list of the Pioneer Elite 94, I can't think of anything else they could possibly add. From everything I've read, the only big gripe seems to be the lack of a fancy menu system.

Something I never really thought about... if I'm using the preamp outs to run my Sunfire Amp, can I still use the internal Pioneer amps? Also, I'm thinking I might bi-wire the Def Tech 7002's and use a couple channels of the poineer to run the surrounds. Seems like the power doesn't have to totally go to waste because I have a seperate amp. Thoughts?

Absolutely!

You could just use the Front L & R preamp output to your Sunfire amp. I forget, is it a 2Ch or 3Ch or more?

If it's 3Ch, you could use the Front L + C + R preamp out to your Sunfire, and have the AV Receiver power the surround speakers. (EDIT: since these amps have different gain level, you definitely need to check the speaker level).

No, do not bi-wire the 7002s. Reason: The 7002s are bi-amped like this: Low + High: Subwoofer + midranges/tweeters.

Even if you use an external amp to power the subwoofer section (LOW), the 7002s' internal amps will be powering the subwoofer drivers no matter what! So you would be just wasting amps.

I was doing this too until I found out directly from Def Tech. So by justing using single channel amp (like Sunfire), you are Bi-Amping the 7002s and CLR2500.

Now the CLR2500 (like the CLR3000) can be Tri-amped. This means you can use 2 external amps to power the HIGH Tweeters and MID Midranges, and let the internal amp power the LOW Subwoofer.

Also, when you bi-amp, make sure you use the same amp with the same voltage gain. So do not use one amp from the Sunfire and one from the Receiver. They need to have matching gain level.

Also, as Gene pointed out, you might consider Onkyo, Denon, or Yamaha since the Pioneer Elites under-perform spec-wise compared to these other 3.

 

[dssmith999]

Well I noticed they now have the release date for the LMC-2 listed as "early summery." WTF! I have a feeling this is gonna be just another one of those situations where we'll be waiting and waiting. I'm sure once "early summer" roles around, it'll be "late summer" when it comes out.

Sucks. I was hoping to buy one of these. I can't wait around hoping companies put stuff out when they say so I can spend my money on them. Oh well, looks like I'm back to searching for a pre/pro or receiver again.

I guess I'll start thinking about the Pioneer Elite again.

I am somewhat in the same boat. I tryed the 805 and it sounds very good but it had a broken video switch and I sent it back and continued the quest. Currently I am trying the MMC-1. I was sceptical and with no sientific testing I was shocked how much better the mmc1 was over the 805 with DD. Specifically the vocals are much sharper there is almost a hiss of air as someone speaks. Never heard that before. I always felt DTS was heads above the DD tracks now on the MMC1 I feel the DD is better. This is just my oppinion but the bar has been raised for SQ for me. Will I keep the MMC1 I have 25 days let to decide but so far it is the champ. At 699 is there anything else the meat or beats SQ? The 805 is close is some ways and feature laden but why compromise SQ? I will say pcm 2 channel does not sound better than the core on the 805 but core DD to core DD the mmc1 sounds better. Seen that in a post somewhere. I used my lpa1 as the amp for both setups. The lmc2 would be a nice option but I dont want to wait.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am somewhat in the same boat. I tryed the 805 and it sounds very good but it had a broken video switch and I sent it back and continued the quest. Currently I am trying the MMC-1. I was sceptical and with no sientific testing I was shocked how much better the mmc1 was over the 805 with DD. Specifically the vocals are much sharper there is almost a hiss of air as someone speaks. Never heard that before. I always felt DTS was heads above the DD tracks now on the MMC1 I feel the DD is better. This is just my oppinion but the bar has been raised for SQ for me. Will I keep the MMC1 I have 25 days let to decide but so far it is the champ. At 699 is there anything else the meat or beats SQ? The 805 is close is some ways and feature laden but why compromise SQ? I will say pcm 2 channel does not sound better than the core on the 805 but core DD to core DD the mmc1 sounds better. Seen that in a post somewhere. I used my lpa1 as the amp for both setups. The lmc2 would be a nice option but I dont want to wait.

Did you feel that 2Ch stereo was better (clearer) in the Onkyo 805 than the Emotiva MMC1?

Just based on other Onkyo models, it seems to me that Onkyo has better specs than Emotiva's pre-pros, but perhaps it was just in the 2Ch Pure Direct mode. In Multi-Channel perhaps the Emotiva was better?

 

[dssmith999]

Did you feel that 2Ch stereo was better (clearer) in the Onkyo 805 than the Emotiva MMC1?

Just based on other Onkyo models, it seems to me that Onkyo has better specs than Emotiva's pre-pros, but perhaps it was just in the 2Ch Pure Direct mode. In Multi-Channel perhaps the Emotiva was better?

Only used for home theater so far so I cannot even speculate based on listening experence. My guess would be that it is the forte for the unit based on what I have read. Sorry

 

[itschris]

Absolutely!

You could just use the Front L & R preamp output to your Sunfire amp. I forget, is it a 2Ch or 3Ch or more?

If it's 3Ch, you could use the Front L + C + R preamp out to your Sunfire, and have the AV Receiver power the surround speakers. (EDIT: since these amps have different gain level, you definitely need to check the speaker level).

No, do not bi-wire the 7002s. Reason: The 7002s are bi-amped like this: Low + High: Subwoofer + midranges/tweeters.

Even if you use an external amp to power the subwoofer section (LOW), the 7002s' internal amps will be powering the subwoofer drivers no matter what! So you would be just wasting amps.

I was doing this too until I found out directly from Def Tech. So by justing using single channel amp (like Sunfire), you are Bi-Amping the 7002s and CLR2500.

Now the CLR2500 (like the CLR3000) can be Tri-amped. This means you can use 2 external amps to power the HIGH Tweeters and MID Midranges, and let the internal amp power the LOW Subwoofer.

Also, when you bi-amp, make sure you use the same amp with the same voltage gain. So do not use one amp from the Sunfire and one from the Receiver. They need to have matching gain level.

Also, as Gene pointed out, you might consider Onkyo, Denon, or Yamaha since the Pioneer Elites under-perform spec-wise compared to these other 3.

My Sunfire is 5 Channel so I have even more options. Is it really worth it to Tri-Amp the Def Tech 2300? Assuming I get the Elite and have the 5 other channels with the sunfire, which would be the best way?

I'm still leaning towars the Elite because overall, it just fits more of what I'm looking for, not just spec-wise and option-wise, but internal ego-wise as well. From my old school days, Pioneer Elite was always considered high-end stuff, so it fits more with what I think I should have in my own head. I still have my old Onkyo that I love, but I think I'm best off with the Elite.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My Sunfire is 5 Channel so I have even more options. Is it really worth it to Tri-Amp the Def Tech 2300? Assuming I get the Elite and have the 5 other channels with the sunfire, which would be the best way?

I'm still leaning towars the Elite because overall, it just fits more of what I'm looking for, not just spec-wise and option-wise, but internal ego-wise as well. From my old school days, Pioneer Elite was always considered high-end stuff, so it fits more with what I think I should have in my own head. I still have my old Onkyo that I love, but I think I'm best off with the Elite.

I don't know if it's worth it to Tri-amp, but it sure is cool.

For 7.1, I would let the Sunfire power the Front Left w/ 1 amp, Front Right w/ 1 amp, and CLR2300 w/ 2 amps, and let the Pioneer Elite power the Surrounds and Back Surrounds.

For 5.1, I would let the Sunfire power each speaker w/ 1 amp and not use the Pioneer Elite amps at all.

Again, even if you use one amp for each speaker (Sunfire x 5, no Pioneer amps), you would be bi-amping each of your front three: BP7002s and CLR2300.

 

[itschris]

I was reading that the Elite 94 has 3 zones, so I could easily setup something in my office and in the bedroom. I'm still trying to figure out a choice place for my Adcom 2 channel amp and Adcom Disc changer for good old fashioned 2 channel listening. I'm worried if I infiltrate another room with "ugly black boxes" my wife is gonna kick me in the giblits.

it's kinda funny how I've come back full circle. When I joined here several weeks back, I was sure I wanted the Elite 94 and Elite Blu-Ray. Then I got all excited about HTPC's and Emotiva, then learned that neither is gonna work for me right now, so I'm right back where I started.

The HTPC thing has really got me intrigued and I'm following that very closely. I found the ultimate case setup... the Omarua 12" slim line flip up touchscreen and their modular cases (http://www.omaura.com/tftft.html). Once the video card makers come up with a true HD audio HDMI solution, I'll start building. In the meantime, I'm gonna start cataloging all my music in a lossless format. I'm not even gonna worry about a DVR now. I'll wait to have that with my HTPC.

Anyway, we're nearing completion of the room, the fireplace is now being remodeled. Then it's paint, wires (I never was able to get them run in time while the wall was being put up) and then it's time to order the Mits 65833 and get the other Def Techs, the Elite, and I'm good to go. I got the cabinet guy making me a new console as well, so I'm stoked for that too. It's all gonna happen real fast in the next 2 or 3 weeks.