Electorates apparently don't have to honor the popular vote.

[Trell]

A republic with a constitution does not, by default, protect anyone from tyranny of the majority. The USSR and present day Russia, China, North Korea and Egypt - all are republics with constitutions. I wouldn't put much faith in any rights that might be enshrined in those constitutions.

Maintaining rights, responsibilities and a balanced democracy is no easy task. We probably couldn't get anyone to agree on the definition of "balanced".

Maybe it's because it's one of the oldest "modern" democracies, but I find the American electoral process about as Byzantine and convoluted as it could possibly be.

Indeed! It is so easy to forget that what uphold the ideas and rights of a constitution is the people in the government at large as well the civic society. Some (many?) have this naive idea that the Constitution in itself is enough to protect them, but for those with some history background that is clearly not the case.

 

[Gmoney]

A republic with a constitution does not, by default, protect anyone from tyranny of the majority. The USSR and present day Russia, China, North Korea and Egypt - all are republics with constitutions. I wouldn't put much faith in any rights that might be enshrined in those constitutions.

Maintaining rights, responsibilities and a balanced democracy is no easy task. We probably couldn't get anyone to agree on the definition of "balanced".

Maybe it's because it's one of the oldest "modern" democracies, but I find the American electoral process about as Byzantine and convoluted as it could possibly be.

You forgot one thing about Russia China North Korea and Iran. Communist dictatorship and religious fanatics. Well that's 3.

 

[markw]

I love it! We have a population of about 330 million and here we are taking guff from one poster from a country with a population of 37 million and the other from a country with a population of about 82 million. and remember, one of them was responsible for starting two world wars and the extermination of millions of people, mostly Jews. The other one, well, we're still trying to determine what they are known for

Consider: The STATE of Texas alone has a population of 28 million. That's 2/3 of the entire country of Canada and just about 1/3 that of Germany. FYI, California alone is about 40 million.

Now, kiddies. Be quiet. The grown ups are talking,

 

[Trell]

You forgot one thing about Russia China North Korea and Iran. Communist dictatorship and religious fanatics. Well that's 3.

@GO-NAD! just gave some examples that a constitution with rights does not in itself guarantee that those rights will be uphold. This is a fetish that (constitution works this way) some (many?) seems to have.

Edit: Clarification

 

[Trell]

I love it! We have a population of about 330 million and here we are taking guff from one poster from a country with a population of 37 million and the other from a country with a population of about 82 million [my bold]. and remember, one of them was responsible for the extermination of millions of people, mostly Jews.

Consider: The STATE of Texas alone has a population of 28 million. That's 2/3 of the entire country of Canada and just about 1/3 that of Germany. FYI, California alone is about 40 million.

Now, kiddies. Be quiet. The grown ups are talking,

Seriously, why are you still harping that I am from Germany, even when I multiple times have written that I live in EU and that I have asked you why you think I come from Germany? You have never answered those, btw.

Do you really hate Germans that much, and why?

So, I marked your post as dumb.

 

[markw]

Seriously, why are you still harping that I am from Germany, even when I multiple times have written that I live in EU and that I have asked you why you think I come from Germany? You have never answered those, btw.

Do you really hate Germans that much, and why?

So, I marked your post as dumb.

I know you marked my post as dumb but what can I expect from one who lacks the stones to identify which country he's from. Did I sink one of your battleships?

BTW, I have German blood but they came here in the 1880, long before Germany went to hell.

 

[Gmoney]

@markw, that's thing a lot don't get, the World has become over populated. Billions! Before the end of this century alone a sustainable food source will not be able to feed the population of this planet. Again I will say it will come down to, Who ever has to Most resources and the who or who's are going to try and go after the one or one's with the most resources. Why do you think China, is building up their military, building artificial islands, getting ready to invade Thailand, North Korea is about to nuke Japan cause they want their islands back. Iran wants to nuke Israel, cause they hate the Jews. all those in the middle East northern Africa religious fanatics, been going at that sand pile for centuries. Now South America, with all of the illegal drug trade that they constantly try to get into United States and all over the world. Has that little deal going on. Why? Illegal drug trade undermines our nation's morals. It brings in corruption, blood money, organized crime isn't going away and it never will. They way I look at it, We should pull out troops from South Korea stop protecting a corrupt government a lot more corrupt than ours. Let them fight it out who's got the biggest balls. Russia evil axis of the European continent, is pretty much what Germany used to be. A dictatorship run by fascism. Communism isn't going to help the World communism takes and destroys anyone that gets in their way. So debating on how it's all going to end? Just sit back get yourself a bowl of popcorn and wait to see what nuke drops first on which country.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I love it! We have a population of about 330 million and here we are taking guff from one poster from a country with a population of 37 million and the other from a country with a population of about 82 million. and remember, one of them was responsible for starting two world wars and the extermination of millions of people, mostly Jews. The other one, well, we're still trying to determine what they are known for

Consider: The STATE of Texas alone has a population of 28 million. That's 2/3 of the entire country of Canada and just about 1/3 that of Germany. FYI, California alone is about 40 million.

Now, kiddies. Be quiet. The grown ups are talking,

If you believe that offering a valid observation on what a constitutional republic is or isn't is "guff", I'll consider "The grown ups are talking" to be ironic.

My point, which you very clearly missed, was that being a constitutional republic is no guarantee that it respects individual rights, prevents the tyranny of the majority or practices democracy in any way. That's not to imply that the US isn't a democracy - far from it.

And, if the population of a country is the determining factor as to whether its citizens have any right to voice an opinion, perhaps you should surrender the microphone to the Chinese and Indians.

I don't try to pick fights with you, Mark, but you seem determined to take offence whenever anyone disagrees with you or has an opinion that is not in accordance with your views. If I have offended you, I apologise, as that isn't my intention. Can we not have a civil discussion? Seriously?

 

[markw]

If you believe that offering a valid observation on what a constitutional republic is or isn't is "guff", I'll consider "The grown ups are talking" to be ironic.

My point, which you very clearly missed, was that being a constitutional republic is no guarantee that it respects individual rights, prevents the tyranny of the majority or practices democracy in any way. That's not to imply that the US isn't a democracy - far from it.

And, if the population of a country is the determining factor as to whether its citizens have any right to voice an opinion, perhaps you should surrender the microphone to the Chinese and Indians.

I don't try to pick fights with you, Mark, but you seem determined to take offence whenever anyone disagrees with you or has an opinion that is not in accordance with your views. If I have offended you, I apologise, as that isn't my intention. Can we not have a civil discussion? Seriously?

What you don't seem to understand, and maybe it's the biased media's fault, is that there are quite a few in this country, some in powerful places and some lurking further down in the machinery, trying to undermine that constitution. Many here are trying to swim upstream against the liberal media to fight them and preserve the constitution.

 

[Gmoney]

What you don't seem to understand, and maybe it's the biased media's fault, is that there are quite a few in this country, some in powerful places and some lurking further down in the machinery, trying to undermine that constitution. Many here are trying to swim upstream against the liberal media to fight them and preserve the constitution.

Markw, absolutely agree, but that's been going on well ever since this country was founded. Check out Andrew Jackson and his administration. Guess who started the banking system in this country? Google Chase. You may be surprise just how much, money has more to do with corrupting our elected officials. Back before my time WW2, German citizens were locked up concentration camps basically including Japanese citizens legal citizens. Communism Russian
is our Nations number one enemy!

 

[GO-NAD!]

What you don't seem to understand, and maybe it's the biased media's fault, is that there are quite a few in this country, some in powerful places and some lurking further down in the machinery, trying to undermine that constitution. Many here are trying to swim upstream against the liberal media to fight them and preserve the constitution.

Regardless of whether that's true, or not, I wasn't attacking the integrity of the US constitution. I hope that's clear. There's no reason we can't discuss such matters here without attacking each other.

Whereas this is a forum where we are unified in our love of home audio/theatre, this particular sub-forum is a valuable channel for people of varying political philosophies to discuss current issues, without it turning into an echo-chamber, like Facebook, where everybody tends to agree.

We should be able to disagree about different topics without ad homonym attacks, belittling, or becoming irate. Agreed?

 

[markw]

Regardless of whether that's true, or not, I wasn't attacking the integrity of the US constitution. I hope that's clear. There's no reason we can't discuss such matters here without attacking each other.

Whereas this is a forum where we are unified in our love of home audio/theatre, this particular sub-forum is a valuable channel for people of varying political philosophies to discuss current issues, without it turning into an echo-chamber, like Facebook, where everybody tends to agree.

We should be able to disagree about different topics without ad homonym attacks, belittling, or becoming irate. Agreed?

Well, it seems that you and troll certainly like to interject disparaging comments into threads which do not concern you. Keep out of discussions where we are discussing our countries issues. Let us discuss it amongst ourselves and keep your snide remarks to yourselves.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Well, it seems that you and troll certainly like to interject disparaging comments into threads which do not concern you. Keep out of discussions where we are discussing our countries issues. Let us discuss it amongst ourselves and keep your snide remarks to yourselves.

Mark, I didn’t realize Gene sold the site to you or made you a moderator. Congratulations! If not, I like discussing this topic with those from other countries, as it gives me a different perspective. So unless you have a new status I’m unaware of, how about being civil or ignoring this thread?

 

[Ponzio]

How is it that only the conservatives seem to "understand" and everyone else must be talked down to like children, like we've never opened a history book. The "biased media" ... no $hit, watched any Faux News lately or CNBC? ... and all the liberals "lurking further down in the machinery" " and "invasions". Paranoid much?

Are you in touch with a higher power, more so that us mere mortals? If so, please for the love of god, pass on his/her/it's phone number. I have some questions. All I keep getting, "I'm sorry that line has been disconnected".

I'm a centrist and all this paranoia of the right & the left is getting really old. When did compromise become a dirty word in this country while everything is turning into mush?

The physical infrastructure is groaning under the pressure with an outdated railway from the 50's & 60's and crumbling roads & bridges, a months supply for insulin for people without health coverage costs $351, our foreign policy is like watching a schizophrenic on his first date, let's not forget "alternate facts" and now the financial markets are teetering again. 2008 has taught us nothing and the Fed's answer is to raise and lower the interest rates monthly in response to a Twitter rant from a crazy uncle.

Meanwhile back at the ranch.

Unreal man, unfu#%&^g real.

 

[markw]

I can see where you get your opinions from the main stream media. How can I argue with that.

Oh, please note that the feds operate independently from the president. very independently.

 

[Ponzio]

Sadly I try to work with "facts" Mark instead of opinions. As we all know, opinions are like armpits, everyone has them and they all stink, including mine. Yours obviously are beyond reproach.

I'm not looking for "opinions" and the inaction that goes along with it.

I'm looking for concrete actions where things get done. If they don't work, fine, we move on to another possible solution till it's resolved, that's all. It's what people do every day in their lives when they make a mistake; they rectify it. Unless they're so pigheaded that they refuse to admit they were wrong and keep making the same mistake over & over again. Seems stupid, right?

Solely relying on a document that was drafted 232 years ago maybe isn't optimal. That's why we created Amendments to the Constitution, since the founding fathers were smart enough to realize that things change; technology, ethics ... like you know, getting rid of slavery, giving women the vote, prohibition ... all kinds of good things.

It's obvious as the nose on your face that what they've been doing for the last 25/30 years is not working. The system is hobbled. Nothing is getting done.

Arguing is not governance, it's a distraction from the very real problems at hand. To be an absolutist on any issue is moronic. Flexibility should be our byword.

What we're doing here on this thread is pissing in the wind and it seems our fearless leaders have adopted the same policy. And they're not getting anything done either.

 

[Ponzio]

... and let's not forget, Romania, 'effin Romania, has faster internet service than the USA. Please explain that to me.

 

[highfigh]

Nevada already stated they will all cast their votes for the candidate who has the most votes nationally in the presidential election, which goes totally against the concept of the electoral college as implemented by the authors of the constitution.

They want the bookies and casinos to make money, right?

 

[highfigh]

Or the independent electors might use their judgment to keep an appropriate candidate out of the Presidency and let the inappropriate candidate in. I am not convinced the electors have so much better judgement than most people.

Edit: Spelling

How many Americans have you met?

 

[highfigh]

Great idea, living in the past.

Our southern forefathers, below the Mason-Dixon Line, would be proud. They too protected their property, like your bicycle, but in their case it was slaves, and inevitably led to the Civil War, once it dawned on people that maybe owning another human might be morally problematic and reprehensible.

Giving women the vote? Nah, they don't need it. We don't want to clutter their little minds.
Voting? Only if you're a free man and a landowner.
Child labor? Sure, that's acceptable.

Give me a break.

Great Britain was the first to abolish slavery, in 1833- that's quite a while after our forefathers wrote the Constitution. The last country to abolish it, Mauritania, waited until 1981. Ironic that Mauritania is in Africa.