Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
Looks like I could be happy with the Elacs performance wise, but I definitely prefer the look of the Ventos.
"Let our rigorous testing and reviews be your guidelines to A/V equipment – not marketing slogans"
KEW
Audioholic Overlord
And another reason to have the Canton Vento in the mix - it gives you another reference point for a waveguide which may help identify what is the waveguide vs a inherent characteristic of teh tweeter.
TheWarrior
Audioholic Ninja
The Elac has a waveguide, so I'm not quite understanding what you are saying in regards to that.
I do not recall the Canton having any of the off axis issues that the Elac does, but memory is not exactly a good way to compare speakers, so I look forward to having more than the Phil 3's to listen to.
It was definitely impressive to hear the Elacs soft dome extend so high in the frequency range, but I really think that has come at the expense of off axis performance. I still stand by my statement of 'not being exciting to listen to'.
As for 'A. Jones' - Never underestimate the power of marketing! Those Pioneer models were awesome entry level speakers, but I have yet to hear an ELAC that serves the purpose of Making A.Jones Great Again.
Re: 40% off - Found it: https://www.elac.com/openboxsale/?utm_medium=topbar&utm_source=website&utm_campaign=0520bs
Although I criticized the Ultra's for one specific song, I think AT BEST you would be making a lateral move with the Elacs.
The Ultra's do alot well, but still feel they are over priced at $1k/pr for bookshelf speakers. Again, memory is not a good way to compare speakers, but I am pretty confident the Cantons would be an upgrade. You should also take a look at the Revel's I linked, yes they are only available as On Walls, but crutchfield has them for $350 ea!
Honestly, if I end up abandoning DIY speaker building, Revel and JBL will be as far as I would look for speakers. They are just that good!
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
You haven't been as active as you used to be so I'm sure you missed that I ordered a pair of Ascend Acoustic Sierra towers with RAAL tweets!
I found a pair of Sierra 2s on CL for $650 and jumped on them. They're hooked up in my living room right now and I've been seduced by the RAALs. Ascend is oos on the tweets right now but have everything else. Those should be here by the end if the month. Soon as they get them and slap 'em in they're gonna ship.
TheWarrior
Audioholic Ninja
Oh, yeah I definitely missed that! Just didn't want you jumping on the ELAC bandwagon as KEW even points out he has not cared for their speakers until this one.
TheWarrior
Audioholic Ninja
Also I just edited my comment to you above, in case you don't want to wait for the Sierra's...
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
Oh yeah. I agree with you, that's how I read it too. I would absolutely choose Canton over the Elacs, but wouldn't get either in an effort to "upgrade" from the Ultras. Like you said, it'd be more of a lateral move, even with the Vento I think. Tho I would expect to hear some subtle differences/better sound from the Cantons.
That's why I skipped over that tier and went for the RAALs.
D
Danzilla31
Audioholic Spartan
Just the Studio 5 lineup really impressed me with there performance for price on sale especially
But I'm totally drooling over the new HDI lineup have you had a chance to listen to any of the new HDI line?
D
Danzilla31
Audioholic Spartan
How much better do you like them vs the Ultras I was impressed by the Ultra bookshelves they're not perfect but they can do a lot
Curious to hear your impressions between the 2
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
I haven't line them up with the books yet, but I've been going back and forth between them and my towers. The S2s are just better across the board. Clearer, extremely linear, great dispersion... I'm even giving them the edge in bass over the Ultra books.
However, they do not get as loud as the Ultra books and they're not quite as sensitive. I don't think I wanna take the S2s to reference levels for any length of time being that I sit 15' from the front stage. Enter the towers with upgraded more robust tweeter, higher sensitivity and power handling. I'm pretty stoked, but I have a couple more weeks to go at least... sigh.
TheWarrior
Audioholic Ninja
No but each iteration seems to get better and better!
D
Danzilla31
Audioholic Spartan
I know I wish they'd bring the Studio 6 line over here but it's only being released as far as I can tell in Japan. It's actually a true 3 way tower on the flagship that would have been cool to check out
That new HDI lineup is part of they're synthesis line so they've gotta be impressive
D
Danzilla31
Audioholic Spartan
It's the waiting that makes it worth it!!! NOT!!!!!
Remember that old commercial? It's my money and I WANT IT NOW!
That explains how I feel about seeing new speakers I like lol
William Lemmerhirt
Audioholic Overlord
Agreed. They should be too since they’re not cheap. I’m considering them as well, but might go revel when the time comes. I also think the HDI line looks nice aesthetically too.
D
Danzilla31
Audioholic Spartan
Yeah they look gorgeous I'm also throwing in JTR in the mix too because they are not much more then the JBL HDI lineup and for the money man I'd want the best I can't say if they would be hands down better tho just maybe different we'd have to get some reviews or shootouts to see
William Lemmerhirt
Audioholic Overlord
That’s a good point. JTR. PSA has some very interesting speakers too. But not much to look at lol.
Sooooo many good choices out there, and I’ve even added Canton to my list a while back. Towers. Naturally...
TheWarrior
Audioholic Ninja
Anything based on the M2 really is impressive, even the cheapo 3 series that can usually be found on sale. Having internal amps makes those such an easy recommendation for entry or beginner set ups.
Anytime I've contemplated giving up DIY I start thinking about the 7 series speakers. It's been a year and half since I built that center channel, but I still like it, I still need to refine it with outdoor testing, but it came out well enough that I think I should keep going. But I think now I'm in the situation where my front 3 are so significantly better than my surrounds that either way I go its going to be a chunk of money to continue the upgrade!
KEW
Audioholic Overlord
The Cantons also have a waveguide. If you did not notice any of the same effect from the Cantons, that would certainly point the finger away from waveguides as the culprit, but being in the same room with similar positioning yada, yada would instill more confidence!
I'm pretty happy with them, but that is why I pay you the big bucks!
Edit: just to be sure to avoid any confusion, no, I don't pay TheWarrior anything, just joking around on that count. However, I do really like the idea of a second opinion because he is likely to have observations I don't and vice versa.
Last edited:
TheWarrior
Audioholic Ninja
Wave guides seem to serve two primary purposes: 1) minimize the increase in directivity in the crossover region between tweeter and mid/woofer, and particularly in the case of JBL - 2) decrease directivity to the point that sound pressure levels remain consistent across a very broad listening window, despite increasing frequency.The Cantons also have a waveguide. If you did not notice any of the same effect from the Cantons, that would certainly point the finger away from waveguides as the culprit, but being in the same room with similar positioning yada, yada would instill more confidence!
I'm pretty happy with them, but that is why I pay you the big bucks!
The Canton seems to do both reasonably well - of course the second is not as good as how JBL does it with their M2 derived waveguides.
With the ELAC I think that the waveguide serves to assist in keeping high frequencies with in audibility despite the tendency of soft dome tweeters to roll off rather quickly above 10khz. Again, that seems to come at the expense of off axis performance.
Those off axis issues seemed so pronounced that I really had a hard time comparing this speaker to the Phil 3's. The Triad InWall Bronze speakers make use of their tweeter (no waveguide) in kind of an opposite way of the ELAC - they are designed for dispersion, not extension, and that is certainly audible with music, which is why the Bronze level InWalls are generally recommended for Movies more than music.
A
audioholic63
Audiophyte
Kurt,
I really appreciate the depth of your review. Combined with Amir's measurements (and surprising thumbs up on the actual sound) it has given me the fullest picture of how the DBR62 sound short of actually listening to them. In my room, with my equipment.
I have been running a set of Sony SS-CS5 on my desktop for about two years. I still feel for the price they are nothing short of astonishing considering that they come out of a mega conglomerate's marketing and R and D. Just proves every now and then you can still get something worthwhile from that world. With Covid 19 I have moved from about 50% remote work to 100% for the past four months and there is no sign of that really changing. Listening to music all day, everyday, seated at the computer, has given me an upgrade itch.
There is nothing wrong with the Sony's, I'm just looking for better. They are 36" apart, about 4" from the wall, elevated 7" from the desk and my head is 36" from both, they are slightly toed. There is a 24" monitor between them, slightly in front of the front plane. They are running from the full range out of a B&K PT-3 and an Adcom GFA535-II. I also have a Dayton Audio Sub-1200 crossed in at 80Hz. The PT-3 has an 80Hz HP out but I find it messes with the Sony's and at the volumes I listen to their natural roll-off is fine. While I have not found their rear port an issue (and have experimented with it plugged but that doesn't really improve anything) I am inclined to stay with front ported or sealed designs
I've been looking at any number of different options, ranging far afield in type, size, and design. I'm trying to set an upper limit of $600, new or used.
Spendor S3/5
Usher S-520
HTD Level 3 (intriguing tweeter but not enough critical reviews other than their own site)
Totem DreamCatcher
Chane A1.5 (also intriguing tweeter but currently out of stock)
Arche Audio FR2 (tiny single driver partial folded horn)
But I do keep coming back to the DBR62 and the ease of returns to Bestbuy. I have never heard any of the Elac speakers. My only experience with Andrew Jones design was in setting up a full 5.1 system for a friend with BS floorstanders, center, bookshelf surrounds, and sub, all with a current gen Yahama AVR. He loved it. Best sound he has ever had. I found it woolly and unlistenable. I had to wonder what all the fuss was about. Perhaps with the DBR62 the hype is living up to the AJ marketing?
Given that you have had extensive critical listening to both the SS-CS5 and DBR62 I was wondering how you would characterize their fundamental sonic differences? It is a given that the Elac will have better LF extension and from all I have read I would expect a less forward sound in the upper bands. But I have not seen any useful direct comparisons. Not looking for a pronouncement of one being better than the other, that is subjective in so many ways as to not serve a real purpose, but rather how do they differ in achieving their design goals for music presentation?
To put my ears and psychoacoustics in perspective, I am 57, with the attendant HF issues. My informal testing with tones and headphones would put my upper limit at 14~15K. My primary 2ch system is a set of Eminent-Tech LFT8B's driven by Cary SLM100 (EL34/6SN7) and an Anthem Pre2L (6922). I've had the LFT8's for 15 years, starting as A rev and upgrading the tweeters to the B rev, thus my inherent interest in any conventional box using a ribbon or an AMT.
My 5.1 setup is a pair of Symdex Grand Epsilon (long defunct, think a Vandersteen approach), B&W Matrix HTM, Wharfdale Diamond 7.2, and an SVS CS20-39. All driven from a Marantz AVR.
So the median age of my primary gear is all somewhere around 20 years old (other than a 55 year old AR-XA). Once you get good stuff setup to your liking you just don't need to keep changing things unless there is an actual problem. There is no problem in the office system. I mostly listen to small jazz and chamber music in that context, some classic rock, prog, blues, reggae, and it does fine, but I know it could be better. Without going insane trying to build some sort of "reference" system, better speakers are not an unreasonable quest, just trying not to go down a rabbit hole.
Whew. That is a lot for my first post on this site. I appreciate any feedback from you or anyone following this thread.
r/Saul
I really appreciate the depth of your review. Combined with Amir's measurements (and surprising thumbs up on the actual sound) it has given me the fullest picture of how the DBR62 sound short of actually listening to them. In my room, with my equipment.
I have been running a set of Sony SS-CS5 on my desktop for about two years. I still feel for the price they are nothing short of astonishing considering that they come out of a mega conglomerate's marketing and R and D. Just proves every now and then you can still get something worthwhile from that world. With Covid 19 I have moved from about 50% remote work to 100% for the past four months and there is no sign of that really changing. Listening to music all day, everyday, seated at the computer, has given me an upgrade itch.
There is nothing wrong with the Sony's, I'm just looking for better. They are 36" apart, about 4" from the wall, elevated 7" from the desk and my head is 36" from both, they are slightly toed. There is a 24" monitor between them, slightly in front of the front plane. They are running from the full range out of a B&K PT-3 and an Adcom GFA535-II. I also have a Dayton Audio Sub-1200 crossed in at 80Hz. The PT-3 has an 80Hz HP out but I find it messes with the Sony's and at the volumes I listen to their natural roll-off is fine. While I have not found their rear port an issue (and have experimented with it plugged but that doesn't really improve anything) I am inclined to stay with front ported or sealed designs
I've been looking at any number of different options, ranging far afield in type, size, and design. I'm trying to set an upper limit of $600, new or used.
Spendor S3/5
Usher S-520
HTD Level 3 (intriguing tweeter but not enough critical reviews other than their own site)
Totem DreamCatcher
Chane A1.5 (also intriguing tweeter but currently out of stock)
Arche Audio FR2 (tiny single driver partial folded horn)
But I do keep coming back to the DBR62 and the ease of returns to Bestbuy. I have never heard any of the Elac speakers. My only experience with Andrew Jones design was in setting up a full 5.1 system for a friend with BS floorstanders, center, bookshelf surrounds, and sub, all with a current gen Yahama AVR. He loved it. Best sound he has ever had. I found it woolly and unlistenable. I had to wonder what all the fuss was about. Perhaps with the DBR62 the hype is living up to the AJ marketing?
Given that you have had extensive critical listening to both the SS-CS5 and DBR62 I was wondering how you would characterize their fundamental sonic differences? It is a given that the Elac will have better LF extension and from all I have read I would expect a less forward sound in the upper bands. But I have not seen any useful direct comparisons. Not looking for a pronouncement of one being better than the other, that is subjective in so many ways as to not serve a real purpose, but rather how do they differ in achieving their design goals for music presentation?
To put my ears and psychoacoustics in perspective, I am 57, with the attendant HF issues. My informal testing with tones and headphones would put my upper limit at 14~15K. My primary 2ch system is a set of Eminent-Tech LFT8B's driven by Cary SLM100 (EL34/6SN7) and an Anthem Pre2L (6922). I've had the LFT8's for 15 years, starting as A rev and upgrading the tweeters to the B rev, thus my inherent interest in any conventional box using a ribbon or an AMT.
My 5.1 setup is a pair of Symdex Grand Epsilon (long defunct, think a Vandersteen approach), B&W Matrix HTM, Wharfdale Diamond 7.2, and an SVS CS20-39. All driven from a Marantz AVR.
So the median age of my primary gear is all somewhere around 20 years old (other than a 55 year old AR-XA). Once you get good stuff setup to your liking you just don't need to keep changing things unless there is an actual problem. There is no problem in the office system. I mostly listen to small jazz and chamber music in that context, some classic rock, prog, blues, reggae, and it does fine, but I know it could be better. Without going insane trying to build some sort of "reference" system, better speakers are not an unreasonable quest, just trying not to go down a rabbit hole.
Whew. That is a lot for my first post on this site. I appreciate any feedback from you or anyone following this thread.
r/Saul
Sitemap
Site Information
Site Information
HTML
