1

1313stang

Enthusiast
#1
hi all. just finished installing new klipsch quintet (older iv version) as my 4 satellites. when noticed sub was humming. (jbl es250p bought in '13 for $200.) i had plugged it in & out numerous times last couple weeks while installing new wire and speakers, playing ect. thought i caused a short in the audio input because it seemed to come and go when moving audio cable. however i could never duplicate the hum on purpose so i think it was coincidence it stopped while messn with the cable. hums all the time, even in different socket/circuit. w different/no audio cable attached. less loud when lte? turned off. looked around on here & av forums most say bad amp. took it apart (i have no idea what im doing, looking for obvious) didnt see any swollen leaking capacitors, burn marks lose soldering. sorry for long post. plate amp if i can find one that fits seems to be 150-200$. so unfortunately probably going to have to replace whole sub soon. questions: 1.worth it to take in to repair shop for estimate? 2. am i overlooking something that i could repair or not understand? 3. whats your thoughts on 2 cheaper 8" vs one higher quality (-$500) 12" sub? ....average size room. open to kitchen dining ect. vaulted ceilings. hardwood floors, sliding glass window. used 99.9% for tv, movies. rarely cranked up...dont have them yet but polk towers will be replaced with klipsch m60 bookshelves.
 
afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
2,341 12 3
#2
There are liked and are 10 inch: https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s/
I like my Jamo SUB200 does a great job for a 8 inch sub. If you can get 1 or 2 used for about $200. They are great. I have one in a small/medium room and it's powerful. There are 2 separate ones on eBay at the moment. Also check Craigslist in your area.
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
3,999 21 4
#4
If you have the room for them (they are not real big, but still 12"),Get a pair of the Monoprice 12" subs from NewEgg for $120 each.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...vR3FeyLih5x_E6u4kDEaAsFwEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
This sub (or the SUB-1200) is well designed for music.
Basically, if you can afford the space, a larger driver in a larger cabinet is the least expensive route to good bass. Many inexpensive 12" subs will tune the sub in an attempt to get the lowest possible frequency out of it. They can do this by designing the port for that lowest possible frequency resulting in a "one note" sub, where it nails that low note but notes above it are muted until you are in the upper 30Hz territory.
I forget how they tuned these subs, but they provide a more even roll-off which works pretty well for music after the typical gain your room provides.
What I'm getting at is this is a case where big and dumb saves money over small and sophisticated (it takes high quality components to make a smaller sub that can equal the larger one)!
 
S

snakeeyes

Full Audioholic
Ratings
125 1
#5
Hmm given the open space and since it is 99% theater going to recommend a single HSU VTF2 but it is a little over your budget. On sale currently for $509 plus $68 shipping. The smoothness of dual subs won’t matter if you can’t pressurize the space... Good luck! :)
 
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yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
386 13 5
#6
I'd go dual sub 1200s considering your budget. A minimum response down to 30hz is absolutely necessary for HT, and very few 8" subs can even perform below 35-40hz. The sub 1200 has a natural rolloff at about 30hz but most rooms will easily extend this to about 25hz IME.

The thing I like about the Dayton subs is they're designed with a flat response that sounds tight (no one note wonder boominess) and have good output considering their amplifier power. If you can get the subs close enough to each other you can get around a 6dB gain in headroom, especially below 50hz where it's needed.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
 
1

1313stang

Enthusiast
#7
Are you says that duel subs big or small won’t benefit in an open floor Plan?....if I got another 12” I’d just get one of Klipschs, svs, elac etc. but read lately of benefits from multiple subs so thought 2 smaller cheaper subs might sound better than one large more exspensive one.
 
S

snakeeyes

Full Audioholic
Ratings
125 1
#8
I’m saying an open floor plan makes it a little more challenging. Probably bigger subs are the way to go. What is the volume of the entire space that is open to the sub in cu ft?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,113 4 1
#11
Are you says that duel subs big or small won’t benefit in an open floor Plan?....if I got another 12” I’d just get one of Klipschs, svs, elac etc. but read lately of benefits from multiple subs so thought 2 smaller cheaper subs might sound better than one large more exspensive one.
The thing is, even if you have 10 of those 8”ers they still won’t extend very deep, and truthfully, “8” subwoofer” is almost an oxymoron. Especially in a big open floor plan. Bass is about moving air and little drivers can’t move much. Plus(with a couple exceptions) small subs are usually built and marketed to a different market. Cheap...(non linear boomy one note wonders)

You’d be best served by buying the best sub(at least 12”) you can afford and get a second one of the same as soon as you can budget for it. Because, to answer you question, dual subs can give you more even response across more seats.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
3,999 21 4
#12
The thing is, even if you have 10 of those 8”ers they still won’t extend very deep, and truthfully, “8” subwoofer” is almost an oxymoron. Especially in a big open floor plan. Bass is about moving air and little drivers can’t move much. Plus(with a couple exceptions) small subs are usually built and marketed to a different market. Cheap...(non linear boomy one note wonders)

You’d be best served by buying the best sub(at least 12”) you can afford and get a second one of the same as soon as you can budget for it. Because, to answer you question, dual subs can give you more even response across more seats.
I agree, an 8" sub or two can make an absolutely wonderful woofer to round out a pair of bookshelf speakers or a pair of the "slim-line" towers with small mid-woofers, but it won't really do what most of us consider the duties of a subwoofer.
If your room is big, you won't pressurize it, but before I got my 15" subs, I was pretty content with the bass I had from a single 12" - compared to most 2.0 stereos, it sounded great, and at the time, my bar was pretty low - I had been using the built-in speakers in the TV!
If your room allows it, position the sub(s) close to your listening position - end "tables" or behind the sofa! That will do a lot to compensate for not pressurizing your room!
Even though they are only 10" and I seem to be contradicting myself, you might consider the (6" thin) 10" Dayton Audio SUB-1000L. It is the third sub listed in this well done (I respect Brent Butterworth's opinion) review. From a WAF standpoint, if these will fit under the sofa and the sofa has a skirt, these could go a few weeks before being noticed, much less detract from the decor!:
https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-subwoofer/
It is $148 shipped:
https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...0-watt-low-profile-powered-subwoofer--300-639
It may not get as low, but I dare say a pair of 10" subs "close enough to bite you" will give you the thrill of a 12" sub across the room!

Edit - one nice thing about the SUB-1000L is I believe it would make a pretty good addition for most sub systems. IOW in two years if you buy a couple of potent 15" subs, you may still find you like a pair of these near!
 
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Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
386 13 5
#13
I agree, an 8" sub or two can make an absolutely wonderful woofer to round out a pair of bookshelf speakers or a pair of the "slim-line" towers with small mid-woofers, but it won't really do what most of us consider the duties of a subwoofer.
If your room is big, you won't pressurize it, but before I got my 15" subs, I was pretty content with the bass I had from a single 12" - compared to most 2.0 stereos, it sounded great, and at the time, my bar was pretty low - I had been using the built-in speakers in the TV!
If your room allows it, position the sub(s) close to your listening position - end "tables" or behind the sofa! That will do a lot to compensate for not pressurizing your room!
Even though they are only 10" and I seem to be contradicting myself, you might consider the (6" thin) 10" Dayton Audio SUB-1000L. It is the third sub listed in this well done (I respect Brent Butterworth's opinion) review. From a WAF standpoint, if these will fit under the sofa and the sofa has a skirt, these could go a few weeks before being noticed, much less detract from the decor!:
https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-subwoofer/
It is $148 shipped:
https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...0-watt-low-profile-powered-subwoofer--300-639
It may not get as low, but I dare say a pair of 10" subs "close enough to bite you" will give you the thrill of a 12" sub across the room!

Edit - one nice thing about the SUB-1000L is I believe it would make a pretty good addition for most sub systems. IOW in two years if you buy a couple of potent 15" subs, you may still find you like a pair of these near!
This isn't always true though. Sometimes placing a sub along the front wall while seating is near the rear wall can net you even more gain. For example, in my bedroom, with the sub along the front wall and the seating along the back wall, I get a massive 12dB boost (although at the cost of accuracy) vs where I have them now near field at the left and right of my seating. Subs don't follow the same rules that speakers do, since almost all frequencies below 200hz are room controlled, they tend to see the whole room and space, and spl and response can vary from spot to spot depending on the proximity of both the subwoofer and the listener to room boundaries.

OP Fwiw, I measured the average sustained output of a single Sub 1500 at a distance of 11' into an open 2000 ft ^3 room at 105dB from 23-100hz. A second sub placed in close proximity to the first should result in a 6dB gain on top of that. For $200 you get a relatively accurate subwoofer that can move quite a lot of air. A 15" subwoofer might seem big, but there's no replacement for displacement.


Depending on how loud you listen relative to reference, you need about 115dB of LF headroom (at 0dB on the AVR volume). Subtract however many dB below reference you listen from that number, for which example, at -15dB you'd need 100dB of headroom. Don't skimp on subwoofage.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
 
1

1313stang

Enthusiast
#14
Busy wk work spent 4 hrs at dmv yesterday. Ugh. Thanks for responses. Yea it’s a wierd open space to try to deal with. Typical of Vegas. Wondered if some of my complaining about other speakers has a lot to do with acoustics. 16x18 8’ ceiling on one side up to 12’ on the other. Sliding glass door on on side, open to kitchen behind seating area. Then on the right, doorway to hall, 12’ ceiling, 8’ wall to open dining/entry area behind seating area. I guess I kinda knew what ppl would say, buy the best you can afford then down the line buy another identical. The model of sub is different now then the one I have, and I haven’t heard anything great about jbl subs anyway so I’ll be changing brands. Really no way to place subs diagonal from one another in this living rm. ac plugs, seating area, wife. Which is what most seem to recommend. Since I was pretty happy with the jbl 12, until it started humming, matey I will just get a better 12 or even 15. The slim subs under the couch isn’t a bad idea though. I could see the appeal of feeling it without shaking the house.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,565 16 36
#15
The JBL sub is decent, but they aren't famous for the amps they used for several models. Decent performance, altho more a music than HT sub. I'd check out the dual SUB1200 or SUB1500 Dayton models suggested for budget subs that work well at a good price. Maybe just find an amp and get the JBL working again. Ever considered DIY?
 
1

1313stang

Enthusiast
#16
I’ve looked at em on pd. Jbl wrote me back saying Amp would run 250 or something which is what I paid for the sub. I’ll look around & see what I can find on the Dayton’s. I’ve seen a lot of good reviews for their budget bookshelves.
 
afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
2,341 12 3
#19
You really have an open space. I'd go the Dayton (2) 1200/(1)1500 route then. I've had my 1200 for music and it's fantastic. I've never tried movies with it but I'm sure you'll be fine. That Jamo 8 inch has really surprised me. The room was vibrating. I got a cheap thick carpet from the dollar tree for it and no rattling of picture frames anymore and more action on the floor. :) So happy with it. YES.
 
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