DSU and DTS:X upmixers are lossy? While Auro isn’t?

Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
Someone recently commented on a post I made on the Audioholics YT that Auro3D is the only upmixer to retain the original dynamic range while DSU and Neural X apply compression. I was under the impression they were lossless. Can someone clarify this for my own edification
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
That's nonsense about lossy upmixing.

We are doing a livestream tonight about Auro 3D bankruptcy.

 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
More importantly - hopefully Gene will address this tonight - will they remove Auro3D completely from the NEXT generation of AVR/AVP?
 
J

jocedeg

Audiophyte
Headline could have read "3D audio format that was never really adopted is fading away into bankruptcy".

This will hardly make any waves.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Senior Audioholic
I just watched The Ice Road with Liam Neeson last night in native Auro-3D. Awesome soundtrack. Ice was breaking all over the floor in the middle of the room (instead of the side walls). Dynamite exploded directly overhead from within a diamond mine, etc. Walls of sounds in places Atmos rarely treads. There is no Atmos or X version. With the Euro even with the dollar, it cost under $20 from dvdoutlet.nl

I just watched Pleasure in Auro-3D last night too in Auro-3D. Crazy, but supposedly accurate movie about a woman coming over from Sweden to make it in the US pRoN industry (directed by a woman). Loads of nudity. Messed up movie, but kind of interesting. Great soundtrack. There's a part where there's a rap/hip-hop song that kicks in and the vocals cone discretely out of the Voice of God speaker overhead with music playing 360 all around it. I'm no big rap fan, but that was an awesome perspective. The movie edged between classical, almost operetic and hip-hop. Wild. Someone was clearly having fun with the Auro-3D mix. Again, no Atmos or X.

I rewatched Boss Level last week in Auro-3D. Excellent soundtrack. Excellent Groundhog Day meets FPS video game Sci-fi plot with Mel Gibson playing the bad guy quite well. Gorgeous Naomi Watts is in it and Sam Grillo plays the hero trapped in a loop. No Atmos or X soundtrack.

I've got 27 native Auro-3D movies now, over half of which are exclusive titled plus a dozen music recordings including several that transport you to the original location like binaural if you have an accurate setup and a deadened room. Himmelborgan and Himmelrand with my eyes closed absolutely felt like I was sitting in the church in Norway it was recorded in. The ceiling sound 50 feet high (8.5' in room).

None of these titles were that hard to find. Most cost no more shipped from Europe than a disc costs locally (taxes are typically removed for US and the dollar is strong right now). Shipping is surprisingly cheap from The Netherlands ($3-$4 per order).

Turbine in Germany have released several titles with separately mixed Atmos and Auro-3D soundtracks. Twister in Auro-3D wipes the floor with the still excellent Atmos mix because it maintains the cinema sound effect levels relative to dialog, making the tornadoes 80% louder at the same dialog level! The Auro mix is scary as hell cranked up. You can't crank the Atmos version to those levels because the dialog gets unbearably loud. It sounded like my roof was being ripped off with the Auro-3D version at reference levels!

People who bad mouth Auro-3D have likely never heard a proper setup or native material. Given how only 1/6 of my 1400+ movie collection are immersive, I'd say we should be encouraging all three formats (screw Sony's lame headphone format) if we want to get more older titles upgraded.

The Auromatic upmixer? I like it for upmixing 5.1 music titles as it expands them vertically without changing the surround mix placement the artist or mixing engineer intended. DSU changes the mixed drastically in many cases and that's not necessarily a good thing.
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
I just watched The Ice Road with Liam Neeson last night in native Auro-3D. Awesome soundtrack. Ice was breaking all over the floor in the middle of the room (instead of the side walls). Dynamite exploded directly overhead from within a diamond mine, etc. Walls of sounds in places Atmos rarely treads. There is no Atmos or X version. With the Euro even with the dollar, it cost under $20 from dvdoutlet.nl

I just watched Pleasure in Auro-3D last night too in Auro-3D. Crazy, but supposedly accurate movie about a woman coming over from Sweden to make it in the US pRoN industry (directed by a woman). Loads of nudity. Messed up movie, but kind of interesting. Great soundtrack. There's a part where there's a rap/hip-hop song that kicks in and the vocals cone discretely out of the Voice of God speaker overhead with music playing 360 all around it. I'm no big rap fan, but that was an awesome perspective. The movie edged between classical, almost operetic and hip-hop. Wild. Someone was clearly having fun with the Auro-3D mix. Again, no Atmos or X.

I rewatched Boss Level last week in Auro-3D. Excellent soundtrack. Excellent Groundhog Day meets FPS video game Sci-fi plot with Mel Gibson playing the bad guy quite well. Gorgeous Naomi Watts is in it and Sam Grillo plays the hero trapped in a loop. No Atmos or X soundtrack.

I've got 27 native Auro-3D movies now, over half of which are exclusive titled plus a dozen music recordings including several that transport you to the original location like binaural if you have an accurate setup and a deadened room. Himmelborgan and Himmelrand with my eyes closed absolutely felt like I was sitting in the church in Norway it was recorded in. The ceiling sound 50 feet high (8.5' in room).

None of these titles were that hard to find. Most cost no more shipped from Europe than a disc costs locally (taxes are typically removed for US and the dollar is strong right now). Shipping is surprisingly cheap from The Netherlands ($3-$4 per order).

Turbine in Germany have released several titles with separately mixed Atmos and Auro-3D soundtracks. Twister in Auro-3D wipes the floor with the still excellent Atmos mix because it maintains the cinema sound effect levels relative to dialog, making the tornadoes 80% louder at the same dialog level! The Auro mix is scary as hell cranked up. You can't crank the Atmos version to those levels because the dialog gets unbearably loud. It sounded like my roof was being ripped off with the Auro-3D version at reference levels!

People who bad mouth Auro-3D have likely never heard a proper setup or native material. Given how only 1/6 of my 1400+ movie collection are immersive, I'd say we should be encouraging all three formats (screw Sony's lame headphone format) if we want to get more older titles upgraded.

The Auromatic upmixer? I like it for upmixing 5.1 music titles as it expands them vertically without changing the surround mix placement the artist or mixing engineer intended. DSU changes the mixed drastically in many cases and that's not necessarily a good thing.
Honestly I had no IDEA about any of these sources! Ironically tonight I’m in the process of doing a 13.1 layout for Auro/DTS:X Pro on my 6700h as just using 4 heights and Auromatic set to movie the immersive audio field was exponentially more impactful watching scenes from John Wick 3 on UHD BD as well as Lone Survivor. I’ve used various scenes in both of those films to demo systems I’ve calibrated and setup and am quite familiar with how the native Atmos and DTS:X soundtrack sounds. I do have to say that after 4 years in the infantry and 5 years off and on as a PMC, Lone Survivor perfectly captures the controlled chaos both visually and acoustically that is a small unit engaging and displacing defensively against a much larger force. Even with DTS:X I had thought it was impressive but with the Auromatic set to Movie and the effect level on 8, it may be an unpopular opinion but I was absolutely blown away.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Senior Audioholic
Native Auro-3D movie titles I have:

Pleasure (see above comments)

Sword of God (bizarre crusader type movie)

The Ice Road (See above comments)

Braven (Jason Momoa)

Monsters of Man 4K (pretty good cave overhead and jungle effects plus killer robots)

I See You (thriller with Helen Hunt)

The Guardians (amusing Russian super hero movie...well at least before The Ukraine)

The Shadow (Alec Baldwin remaster; Amazon France has it)

Twister (see previous comments)

Daylight (movie is awesome with immersive sound, but I'd give the Atmos version the edge here)

Dragonheart (both versions are good)

Boss Level (see previous comments)

Honest Thief (not the best Auro mix)

The Game (Michael Douglas movie from 1997; Amazon France)

Domino (Two Games of Thrones actors, but a bit tame for a thriller)

Death Machine (1994 horror classic; pretty decent wall to wall sound)

Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle (Amazon France has 4K pack with Atmos on 4K and Auro-3D on the 1080p version)

Blade Runner 2049 (similar to Atmos version but no rear surrounds as it's Auro 11.1)

Flatliners (2017 remake; excellent overhead intro with voices moving all around the ceiling; similar effects in movie at points. Gorgeous Ellen Page before she decided she wanted to become a dude....:()

The Dark Tower (Stephen King movie with pretty good effects)

Salyut-7 (Russian Space Station disaster movie based on true story; I got it in 3D. I had to find English susbs on Internet to remux, though)

Passengers (Chris Pratt & Jennifer Lawrence ; nice soundtrack. I remuxed the 3D version).

Inferno (DaVinci Code guy series movie with Tom Hanks; the best on of the series, IMO. Good sound. I ordered this off eBay from Australia).

Johnny Mnemonic (Atmos and Auro versions)

Pixels (not sure why no popular movie as I'm not an Adam Sandler fan, but this was hilarious; good soundtrack. I remuxed the 3D version).

Spider-Man Homecoming

Red Tails (first Auro-3D movie by George Lucas; great dogfights and awesome soundtrack, but story on ground a bit thin. I've still watched this one several times).
 
J

jocedeg

Audiophyte
People who bad mouth Auro-3D have likely never heard a proper setup or native material. Given how only 1/6 of my 1400+ movie collection are immersive, I'd say we should be encouraging all three formats (screw Sony's lame headphone format) if we want to get more older titles upgraded.

I'm not sure how encouraging a format from a bankrupt company will make any difference.

But hey: knock yourself out !

It's all about having fun, in the end.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Senior Audioholic
I'm not sure how encouraging a format from a bankrupt company will make any difference.

But hey: knock yourself out !

It's all about having fun, in the end.
Bankruptcy <> going out of business. It's a restructuring process. No one's even been laid off.

My point is people have been marginalizing Auro-3D from Day 1. My AVR supports all three formats so why would I avoid Auro-3D titles when over half are exclusive titles? But I see that all the time. Dead On Arrival. Who Cares? Etc. If people don't care, ignore it. It's not hurting them.
 
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