Drunk on surround sound

S

Stubaan

Audiophyte
Hi folks,

My first time in these here parts. I like the ring of audioholics - it resonates. I hope to call upon your insights as I set up the audio of my first home theater, and share the experience should others be interested in listening.

This gist of my question is this: I have just bought a pretty cheap Blu-Ray home theater that I hope to improve by using some bigger, and I assume better, speakers that I've been holding onto for just such an occasion. I appreciate that these days smaller size doesn't necessarily mean lesser quality when it comes to speakers, so I hope you can help me flesh out the truth of the matter for my particular case.

My grasp on the role of impedance ratings in matching speakers with an amplifier is tentative at best. I am familiar with the E=IR relationship (I have a doctorate in engineering) (environmental though ;-) but am no audiophile. I seek some input from those that know better into the implications of these ratings.

So, the system I have to work with:

New home theater system:
LG LHB336; 1100W; 5.1 channel
Built-in amplifier output details:
180 Watt - 4 Ohm - THD 10% - 5 channel (Surround)
200 Watt - 3 Ohm - THD 10 % - 1 channel(s) ( Subwoofer )
Built-in decoders:
Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital, DTS decoder, DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD
Home theater speaker system:
Right/left channel speaker : 3.7 in x 3.3 in x 7.2 in; 1.3 lbs
Speaker system : Center channel speaker : 12.9 in x 3 in x 3.9 in; 2.6 lbs
Speaker system : Right/left rear channel speaker : 3.7 in x 3.3 in; 1.3 lbs
Speaker system : Subwoofer : 7.5 in x 12.5 in x 15.2 in; 11 lbs
2 x 2-way - External - 180 Watt - 4 Ohm - Wired,
1 x External - 200 Watt - 3 Ohm - Wired
1 x External - 180 Watt - 4 Ohm - Wired
2 x External - 180 Watt - 4 Ohm - Wired

Old speakers at my disposal:
2 x KLH9915 four-way speakers; 8 Ohm; wired; 10-300W; ~3 ft high (HUGE speakers!)
2 x JBL HLS610 two-way speakers; 8 Ohm; wired; ~1.5 ft high (big speakers)

I have a large living room, with the TV approximately 15 feet from the main couch. I could mount the smaller speakers that came with the home theater, but the GIANT KLH speakers stand on the floor, and the big JBL's are too obnoxious to mount up high, so would need to be on the floor too.

So, my preliminary plans are:
- Use the GIANT KLH speakers for the front left and right channels, positioned adjacent to the TV.
- Use the big JBL speakers for the rear left and right channels, position about 10 feet from the TV on the floor, rotated 90 degs from the front speakers (so facing each other)
- Use the center channel speaker and subwoofer provided with the LG home theater system.

My questions are:
1. What are the consequences of connecting 8 Ohm speakers to 4 Ohm amplifier outputs? Will I get better sound using the bigger speakers? Do I risk harming the speakers or the amp?
2. Can I connect the 8 Ohm speakers using the wiring provided with the home theater for the 4 Ohm speakers it ships with?
3. I assume the two-way LG speakers are the front facing speakers. Any implications in using the four-way KLH speakers in their place, or the two-way JBL speakers in stead of the one-way rear (I assume) speakers?
4. Do you have any comments or suggestions.

I'm happy to provide pictures if there is interest. I suspect my setup is too crass to really warrant any such attention, though. Nonetheless, I would like to make it as great as possible, with your help.

Thanks!!
 
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Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Welcome to the forum, Stubaan! Excellent first post.

1. What are the consequences of connecting 8 Ohm speakers to 4 Ohm amplifier outputs? Will I get better sound using the bigger speakers? Do I risk harming the speakers or the amp?
You'll be fine. The lower the impedance (Ohm), the more current a speaker will draw from an amplifier at a given volume level. An amp that can handle a 4-Ohm load will be able to handle an 8-Ohm load. The speakers won't be damaged it, either. Although I doubt that system will be able to overload your speakers, the key is turn the volume down if you hear it distorting.

2. Can I connect the 8 Ohm speakers using the wiring provided with the home theater for the 4 Ohm speakers it ships with?
A great resource on wire sizing is this one here from Roger Russell. It discusses the recommended wire size for a certain length of wire. If those speakers are much more efficient than the larger speakers (meaning, they'll play louder at a given power level), then you might need to use more power to drive the larger speakers - so you might want larger wires. Just to try them out, though, you should be okay.

3. Do you have any comments or suggestions.
Probably the biggest issue with your plan is that the speakers are almost surely not sonically matched to one another, meaning that if the same sound were to pan from one speaker to the next, it wouldn't sound the same as it moved around the room. Of course, the best thing is to hook up both sets and see which you like the best. It's really all about personal preference, IMO, so go with what works for you.

Those smaller speakers might be more efficient, so the larger speakers might sound quiet with that amp. However, with those rated powers, I'm thinking that you'll be okay.
 
S

Stubaan

Audiophyte
Much 'bliged!

Alrighty, thanks!

I guess the take home message is "You're unlikely to bugger anything up using what you have, so experiment away and decide for yourself what sounds best."

Don't mind if I do!

I'll report back in due course, and will probably return with additional pestering as I go further down this rabbit-hole. Had to happen eventually ;-)

Sorry Adam - I edited my original message seemingly after you read it. There is one additional question that I would appreciate clarification on (the new #3).
 
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GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
My first time in these here parts. I like the ring of audioholics - it resonates. I hope to call upon your insights as I set up the audio of my first home theater, and share the experience should others be interested in listening.
Welcome to AH!

My grasp on the role of impedance ratings in matching speakers with an amplifier is tentative at best.
Impedance matching works like this

Amp output impedance = hopefully very negligible / close to zero
Speaker impedance is a Z-chart dependant on frequency.

High impedance is rarely a problem. Low impedance and demanding phase angles can be a problem.

New home theater system:
LG LHB336; 1100W; 5.1 channel
Built-in amplifier output details:
180 Watt - 4 Ohm - THD 10% - 5 channel (Surround)
200 Watt - 3 Ohm - THD 10 % - 1 channel(s) ( Subwoofer )
Ohhh boy :eek:

10% THD is akin to "AHHHH MAAYYY EARRRSSSSS"

In other words, those measured numbers are very exaggerated. This is probably a lot closer to around 80 watts into 4 ohms, and probably around 60 watts into 8 ohms if I had to guess.

I honestly fear that this amp may be a problem in more ways than one. I doubt it is able to deliver the voltage/current to your speakers.

I also suspect the software will make integration problematic.

I have a large living room, with the TV approximately 15 feet from the main couch.
And this....... hurts further.

1. What are the consequences of connecting 8 Ohm speakers to 4 Ohm amplifier outputs? Will I get better sound using the bigger speakers? Do I risk harming the speakers or the amp?
Presumably, there are no consequences with solid state equipment. The amplifier outputs are actually very low impedance (close to zero). They're only rated at 4 ohms, likely because the higher wattage number is more flattering.

2. Can I connect the 8 Ohm speakers using the wiring provided with the home theater for the 4 Ohm speakers it ships with?
Wiring is generally inconsequential as latency isn't normally an issue, nor is resistance or power handling. With that said, most of us here do prefer 16, 14, or 12 awg for no rational reason :D

3. I assume the two-way LG speakers are the front facing speakers. Any implications in using the four-way KLH speakers in their place, or the two-way JBL speakers in stead of the one-way rear (I assume) speakers?
the number of "ways" is just how separated the frequencies are.

IE a 4 way might have a woofer handling 20hz to 200hz, a lower midrange handling 200hz to 700hz, an upper midrange handling 700hz to 3khz, and a tweeter handling 2khz to 20khz.

a 2-way would just have a midbass handling 80hz to 2khz and a tweeter handling 2khz on up.

a 1-way is just a (in this scenario, miserable) driver trying to reproduce as much of the the full audible range as it can.

So the number of ways has to do with "distribution".

Ideally you want all your speakers to have a similar (and accurate) tonal characteristic. A bigger point of concern than "ways" would be tonal character.

4. Do you have any comments or suggestions.
Well, i'm glad you're enthusiastic about putting together a multichannel sound system, but I suspect your results are not going to be wonderful. The receiver you've chosen is a big bottleneck to start with.
 
S

Stubaan

Audiophyte
When the deaf man first hears, even static is beautiful

Thanks GranteedEV - this is all starting to come together now. I really do appreciate all the helpfulness

Well, i'm glad you're enthusiastic about putting together a multichannel sound system, but I suspect your results are not going to be wonderful. The receiver you've chosen is a big bottleneck to start with.
Yeah, I knew coming into this that the built-in receiver was likely to be the bottle-neck, and a tight one at that given the price of the home theater. I was hopeful though that better speakers might mitigate some of it's weaknesses.

At the end of the day I got this system for the Blu-Ray, and went for the home theater package because I just couldn't handle the thought of watching such beauty with nothing better for sound than the built-in TV speakers I've been relegated to since Zeus fried my last receiver. I seriously considered an independent audio system, but my life is just too ephemeral (and frugal) right now to be committing to the sound I want long-term. And coming from nothing more than TV speakers, I suspect even "AAAAAARGH MY EEEAAAARS" quality audio will be an improvement. The deaf hearing static, and all that ;-)

Ideally you want all your speakers to have a similar (and accurate) tonal characteristic. A bigger point of concern than "ways" would be tonal character.
What is this "tonal characteristic"? Does this just refer to the optimal frequency range of the speakers, or is there more to it? And how does accuracy come into play... is this referring to the quality of sound reproduction, or is something else at play here?

"Will questions ever cease?"

Unlikey.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I suspect even "AAAAAARGH MY EEEAAAARS" quality audio will be an improvement.
Just to clarify, the 10% thd would only occur at high drive levels. THD is probably near 0.5% or so at normal listening levels. I was just pointing out how exaggerated the receiver specs were. Its power rating was given at a point where no one would listen without clawing their ears out.

That said, if you can still return it, you may be able to get superior performance without paying much more, possibly. You're at a site full of frugal people who get results :D ;)

I mean, something like this

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5004/Marantz-SR5004-90w-X-7ch-Home-Theater-Surround-Receiver/1.html

Plus any dirt cheap, used or otherwise, blu-ray player with HDMI out, should royally wipe the floor with what you're running.

Once you've got a decent foundation like that, then electronics become infinitesimal on the scale of importance.

What is this "tonal characteristic"?
Tonal character refers to how the timbre of your speakers differs from reference.

Reference, in this case, is "the source material"

Tonal character, in this case, is "what are these speakers adding or subtracting from the source material in terms of frequency emphasis. Is anything being too emphasized? Do male vocals sound natural or does it seem like they're shouting? Do female vocals sound natural or do they seem like they're hisssssssssssssssssing?

"In what ways do the speakers differ from lifelike"

Speakers which differ from tonal neutrality, but do it differently, often have difficulty integrating in a surround system.

A speaker really shouldn't have its own tonal characteristics. That is the holy grail we strive for :eek: :D

Does this just refer to the optimal frequency range of the speakers, or is there more to it?
Not range, but tolerance. We look for speakers with tight frequency tolerance near +/- 2db and with smooth, consistent, similar dispersion out to 60 to 90 degrees such that any reflections we hear from the off axis behaviour are consistent with what we were meant to hear. We really don't want a speaker that "rings" or "booms" or "sizzles" :)

Of course, having frequency response from 20hz to 20khz doesn't hurt either. In general though, if you've got about 80hz to 14khz covered, you aren't missing much.

And how does accuracy come into play... is this referring to the quality of sound reproduction, or is something else at play here?
Well, there's lots of factors in sound reproduction. Much of it has to do with "the illusion". Even some of the finest speakers in the world sound could vastly different because they throw a different "illusion" at you. But through them, we still expect transparent reproduction of "how things sound". Any time a speaker adds something, it effectively is subtracting from the source content. And if it subtracts something, it is subtracting from the source content.

In other words, most speakers are evil.
And so are rooms, by the way.
And some really bad electronics.

Our goal is to find stuff that isn't evil in order to. ya... know... make the world less evil? So we ask our super hero, Dr. Floyd Toole.

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord
Aside from the excellent advice already offered, I'd just like to add one more comment:

Your existing center channel and subwoofer from your HTIB might be "overshadowed" by the bigger speakers. You will probaby wind up cranking them to the limits of your receiver and still may not be adle to hear them.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Hello Stubaan, and welcome to the forum.

Although others have obliquiely mentioned it, the most critical elements to good sound are your speakers and speaker/room interaction. Speakers invariably have much more distortion or aberrations from accuracy of any part of the chain. Getting that part of the sonic equation right is by far the largest part of the battle when it comes to good sound.

What you have my work fine, so give it a try first. If you notice unusual differences, particularly on sound which pan across many speakers, consider upgrading to matching fronts and center (with surrounds you can typically get away with more 'character' differences without becoming objectionable).

Also, although I have no idea for certain, I would suspect that the larger speakers you have are more efficient than the small ones, which may give you more wiggle room with that HTIB receiver. Despite that, which may or may not be the case (you'll have to check), Grant is correct that the receiver you chose could be improved upon for not much expense.

Good luck to you in putting it all together. Keep us posted. You're in the right spot for no-nonsense advice.
 
S

Stubaan

Audiophyte
The road goes ever on and on...

This is awesome.

But I can tell you're all just baiting me: standing there, watching me haplessly toddle along the precipice of audioholism, tempting me with your cocktails of jargon that whisper of an entire new world of sense to discover, where now I just see whisps.

Sub-rabbit-hole#1: drive level
Just to clarify, the 10% thd would only occur at high drive levels.]
So, drive level would seem to be a measure of the power dissipated by the crystal structure of... the transistor I presume? High volume => higher current => higher power dissipation => higher liklihood of distortion?

Sub-sub-rabbit-hole#2: THD
THD is probably near 0.5% or so at normal listening levels. I was just pointing out how exaggerated the receiver specs were. Its power rating was given at a point where no one would listen without clawing their ears out.]
This I gather is total harmonic distortion, generally expressed as the ratio of the additional power expended on, shall we call it fidelity infestations, relative to the sublime purity of the original signal. Is the value quoted here THD expressed as the power ratio or the amplitude ratio? So typical listening levels experience about 0.5% distortion, whereas the these specs are indicating a 10% distortion corresponding with the given output wattage specs. At what THD does do we really start to notice the distortion (I appreciate that the sensitivity of one's ears to infidelity is probably greatly refined by long-term exposure to audiophylia ;-) )

I feel like Sam wildly swinging his frying pan around during that orc/troll fight in Balin's tomb in the Mines of Moria: "I think I'm getting the hang of this."

That said, if you can still return it, you may be able to get superior performance without paying much more, possibly. You're at a site full of frugal people who get results :D ;)
I don't think returning it is a feasible option, and I think I would like to bide my time on this even if it were. I'd like to earn my ears, if you know what I mean. I can definitely appreciate the value of profound sound; I recently had the pleasure of catching the newly remastered (for the Blu-Ray release) Extended Editions of The Lord of the Rings at a great cinema and found the sound to be particularly potent to my senses. The opening of The Two Towers (Gandalf plummeting into the bowels of the earth, waging cosmic war with the Balrog) left me shell-shocked in awe, despite having seen it who-know-how-many-times before, and the sheer impact of that scene's sound I think had a big role to play. In fact, it may well be the rewatching of these films that has me sniffing round this rabbit-hole. The combination of cinematic sound system, score, sound effects and sound editing, on top of all the other powerful elements to those films, was really quite an emotional experience.

I think I need to understand, and in time come to tangibly appreciate, what makes my current sound average before taking the significant step of buying a dedicated receiver and beginning to build an audio empire.

(Come to think of it, Gandalf's battle with the Balrog is a good metaphor for my relationship with audio. The Audio Daemon and I have long stared at each other across the Bridge of Khazad-dûm, which separates audio ignorance from bliss. Long I have kept the beast at bay, but defense alone is no path to freedom. And now, when my back was turned, I find I've been pulled off the bridge by the unexpected crack of whip, to fall and finally confront this fiend of auditory enlightenment, or perish with ears unawakened.) (Tolkien on the damn brain!!)

Plus any dirt cheap, used or otherwise, blu-ray player with HDMI out, should royally wipe the floor with what you're running.
A little confused here: When you say "with what you're running" are you referring to the home theater I just bought, or TV-only system I have been using in recent history? I have a decent HDTV, and will connect the Blu-Ray to it via HDMI, but I would expect no audio to be transmitted since the speakers are integrated with the Blu-Ray player's built-in amp, not the TV.
I guess you mean to use the HDMI out to connect a receiver to the Blu-Ray player, which should ensure excellent transmission of the Blu-Ray's high-quality audio signal to the amp.

We look for speakers with tight frequency tolerance near +/- 2db and with smooth, consistent, similar dispersion out to 60 to 90 degrees such that any reflections we hear from the off axis behaviour are consistent with what we were meant to hear. We really don't want a speaker that "rings" or "booms" or "sizzles" :)
So if I were to listen out for these sorts of effects, they would be the product of what? Constructive/destructive interference? I ask because my lounge's layout is pushing me towards having the rear speakers about 2/3 of the way from the TV to the couch (so not ever truly "rear"), and oriented at 90 degs to the TV screen (thus facing each other). This does not seem to be a typical setup geometry, and perhaps there is very good reason for this....

Like you say, "In other words, most speakers are evil. And so are rooms, by the way."

Intuitively I sense that the sound coming from a speaker degrades as it diffracts to greater and greater angles from the central axis, but it's not clear to me why. I think my confusion stems from not knowing whether the sound is emitted radially, or if the property of diffraction is actually bending, and thus distorting, the sound waves. I think the latter, given that the physics of sound waves (compressions and rarefactions) implies a more linear propagation.

So we ask our super hero, Dr. Floyd Toole.
Thank you interlibrary loan!

Aside from the excellent advice already offered, I'd just like to add one more comment:
It HAS been excellent, hasn't it?!

Your existing center channel and subwoofer from your HTIB might be "overshadowed" by the bigger speakers. You will probaby wind up cranking them to the limits of your receiver and still may not be adle to hear them.
This seems to be implying that I will be able to control the individual volumes of each speaker, but I suspect you're actually implying some effect of the lower impedances of these speakers. Which brings us nicely back to my original query at the very beginning of all this: the relationship between resistance, amplification, and sound quality. Pardon my vagueness, but are you saying that the amp will naturally distribute less juice to these speakers because they have lower resistance compared to the 8 Ohm speakers?

This seems counter-intuitive: I=V/R suggests that greater resistance (R) will reduce the current (I) drawn for a given voltage (V). The Power (P) should then be less, since P=VI. Instead, it seems that the lower resistance speaker is expected to draw less current and output less power than the others, thus being overshadowed...

Thank you all very, very much. This is a real pleasure.
 
N

Nestor

Senior Audioholic
Though it's not mentioned, you will need to consider speaker efficiency. If there is a gross mismatch between the mains with the center and surrounds, with the mains (I suspect) being more efficient it can be a potential problem.

The amp will work harder on the less efficient speakers in an attempt to keep up with the more efficient ones and could cause overheating and distortion. It's better to turn down the levels on the more efficient speakers than to turn up the levels on the less.

Hope that makes sense.
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord
This seems to be implying that I will be able to control the individual volumes of each speaker, but I suspect you're actually implying some effect of the lower impedances of these speakers.
With most HT receivers you can. since yours was part of an integrated system, I can't say for sure that you are able to. You should, though and IIWY, I'd be scouring the manual for this info. You're gonna need it.

Which brings us nicely back to my original query at the very beginning of all this: the relationship between resistance, amplification, and sound quality. Pardon my vagueness, but are you saying that the amp will naturally distribute less juice to these speakers because they have lower resistance compared to the 8 Ohm speakers?

This seems counter-intuitive: I=V/R suggests that greater resistance (R) will reduce the current (I) drawn for a given voltage (V). The Power (P) should then be less, since P=VI. Instead, it seems that the lower resistance speaker is expected to draw less current and output less power than the others, thus being overshadowed..
Wow, that's a lot of analyzing for a fairly simple concept. Let's try to simplify it so my old head can wrap my old, feeble brain around it. I haven't had any engineering courses since the early 70's so please bear with me. I have, however, been playing with these audio thingies since the early 60's when I built my first amp from cannibalized table radios

Let's start with the fact that what your equation calls resistance" is a constant. What a speaker has isn't resistance per se.. Although it's stated in ohms, it's really impedance, which your training probably told you is a calculated figure and is frequency dependent and is all over the chart in the audio range. And, the stated figure is a "nominal" impedance which is kinda like the EPA mileage rating on cars. So, your power to sound math flies out the window here.

Now, on to the easy, fun stuff.

First basic ides in SOP figuring: A speakers main goal is to move air. The more air that is moved, the louder the sound will be.

First Exercise in SOP figuring: Look at your front main speakers.
Now look at what you'll be using for your center speaker.
Which does your gut instinct tell you will move more air (play louder) with the volume controls set to the same level?

Second Exercise in SOP figuring: Look at your front main speakers.
Now look at what you'll be using for your "subwoofer"*.
Which does your gut instinct tell you will move more air (play louder) with the volume controls set to the same level?

And, for all intents and purposes, as long as the amp is of a decent quality and has enough clean power to drive the speaker to comfortable levels, it has little influence on the overall sound.

Finally, assuming what was stated in the previous paragraph, the impedance of the speaker has no effect on sound quality. But, the pecs on your receiver do leave ma a but unsure. They seem to be "grasping" for big numbers to show on the spec sheet, which most receivers don't do.

Math and book larnin' is good, but real-world experience can be quite handy and save a bit of consternation sometimes.

Now, there's a lot more for you to grasp, like timbre matching, frequency range, etc..., but you're coming in here with preconcieved notions is gonna make your learning curve fairly long and painful. It would have been better if perhaps you came in asking the basics first instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, which is essentially what you're trying to do.

*I put the word "Subwoofer" because I do believe it's more of a common bass speaker than a real subwoofer which operates to near subsonic frequencies., mush like those that's found in a Bose system.
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord
An addendum to my previous reply.

I just did a search on the internet for your unit. I also checked the owners manual and, as suspected, the specs are somewhat speciousl.

Now, I'm not one to judge people by what they pay for their kit but sometimes their expectations can be a bit out of line with reality. In this case, you got six speakers, a subwoofer and all needed electronics as a package for < $400.

You can be assured there were some corners cut, particularly since that price barely buys an entry level receiver alone, and they don't advertise anywhere near the power this one promises.

You don't get no bread with one meat ball.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
So, drive level would seem to be a measure of the power dissipated by the crystal structure of... the transistor I presume? High volume => higher current => higher power dissipation => higher liklihood of distortion?
Essentially, yes.

This I gather is total harmonic distortion, generally expressed as the ratio of the additional power expended on, shall we call it fidelity infestations, relative to the sublime purity of the original signal. Is the value quoted here THD expressed as the power ratio or the amplitude ratio?


I know exactly what you're asking, but my brain is mush right now trying to put the answer into words. Perhaps this page can give you a bit of a hint:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

At what THD does do we really start to notice the distortion (I appreciate that the sensitivity of one's ears to infidelity is probably greatly refined by long-term exposure to audiophylia ;-) )
THD means total harmonic distortion. Unfortunately the way we perceive distortion is very dependant on what we are listening to. Simply put, there's times when 0.003% THD is more audible than 2% THD. To be honest, I'm not a fan of THD at all. I'd much rather look at harmonic distortion by order - IE 2nd order is less easy for our ears/minds to isolate than 5th order distortion. But 10% THD as a general rule is what we think of when we think of amplifiers about to oscillate and then explode.

A little confused here: When you say "with what you're running" are you referring to the home theater I just bought, or TV-only system I have been using in recent history?
The home theater you just bought. I suspect that not only is it having issues with your speakers, but more importantly it hasn't been designed to properly set things up and integrate them together seamlessly.

So if I were to listen out for these sorts of effects, they would be the product of what? Constructive/destructive interference?
More problems than I can name. I'd start somewhere a lot simpler though - bad product design.

Intuitively I sense that the sound coming from a speaker degrades as it diffracts to greater and greater angles from the central axis, but it's not clear to me why.
Generally, the thing creating sound, the speaker driver, is (normally) a pistonic cone or dome, on top of a wooden baffle. The baffle is a source of reflections / diffraction. the cone itself can often have larger dimensions than the wavelengths it is asked to produce - causing the off axis behaviour from one part of the cone to cancel out the off axis behavior at the other side. Ideally we want acoustically small drivers but of course they fail to produce sufficient SPLs. And so we mix and match drivers with crossovers (IE a 2 way or 3 way speaker). Without a doubt the crossover creates its own share of countless problems. And even then, often it`s difficult to get uniform radiation across the audible spectrum. Here is the horizontal off axis behavior of one popular, $25,000+ 3-way loudspeaker. The flat line `0 deg` represents the normal on axis behavior (which may not be flat, but in this graph think of everything as you move away from `zero`to be deviation from on axis, not deviation from flat response.)



So paying more alone doesn`t mean you`re getting a well engineered product in all facets.

But the point is, we can`t expect speakers to have uniform response, until we see measurements of them. it`s not impossible, but it`s difficult, especially when you factor in the need for high sound pressure levels.

Here is one horizontal off axis chart that i think more closely represents what I want :D



right up to 10khz, it`s extremely smooth.

Returning to that pistonic cone, speaker drivers do not maintain pistonic behaviour as you go up in frequency. The larger the driver surface area, the quicker it breaks up. Cone material has a huge effect too.

A good speaker design doesn`t let you hear a speaker`s cone breaking up (which audibly, is òne version of what i meant by "ringing") - because it doesn't sound good. It will limit the voltage to the driver breaking up, and instead direct voltage to another driver. this is where one-way speakers, such as those LGs, can become problematic.

Here is what a speaker's decay should look like:



Something like the above would sound very "clean" sounding. After a tone, it does not "ring" or "overhang". Imagine if if there was extra sound being created after the tone being fed to the speaker. Look at this water fall graph:



Clearly you can see that this one has extra sound that you don't want to hear.

The other problem with one way speakers is output. A 3" cone simply can't produce much output at 100hz. It can't move the air necessary without massive excursions. Likewise, a 6" subwoofer can't do much undistorted output at 40hz. It's just unrealistic.

So between output, clean time domain response, flat frequency response, smooth off axis frequency response, and low box coloration - just to name a few things - speakers can ::really:: hurt a signal. The closer you get to great speakers, the more similar they should sound - because a speaker's job is just to get you the recorded material - it is a tool after all. There's definitely a law of diminishing returns at play.

To be honest, you sound like the kind of individual who would have a lot of fun doing DIY :D - after you upgrade that putrid receiver, look into a DIY speaker kit, amplifier kit or subwoofer. You might find it a fun hobby.

Anyways, a good place to get information is right here on audioholics. They've written lots of no nonsense articles which might educate you well.

A good person to envy and hate is Acudeftechguy. He just bought a pair of revel Salon2s, a pair of one of the measurably finest speakers in the world.
 
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