Driver construction

[ThA tRiXtA]

I am potentially going to sell off my Mission M74i towers along with the matching M7C1 center and the M30 bookshelf surrounds in favor of purchasing some upgrades.

I like what I see in the RBH TK series however in doing research around here, I note that the Audioholics online store sells the twins of the RBH speakers under the name of EMP EF30 series.

The only listed differences being that the more expensive RBH's feature a slightly more attractive physical appearance (means very little to me) and a "pulp Kraft cone" woofer and two fiberglass cone mid range drivers.

The EMP's include a "compressed cellulose composite" woofer and two poly graphite mid range drivers.

My Mission speakers I currently own feature woven glass drivers as do the RBH and I like them and am wondering if I should stick with the woven glass technology. To me they seem more sturdy and able to endure the test of time... but I have only ever owned cheap crap compared to my Mission speakers in the past.

Anyone familiar with driver construction know what the differences between the 2 are and why the RBH versions command a higher price and if those different driver materials are worth the extra money?

Last but not least, a somewhat unrelated question... I see some people love speaker grills and others abandon them. Is this strictly for aesthetic purpose or do the block any sound waves or frequency response?

Thanks in advance.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am potentially going to sell off my Mission M74i towers along with the matching M7C1 center and the M30 bookshelf surrounds in favor of purchasing some upgrades.

I like what I see in the RBH TK series however in doing research around here, I note that the Audioholics online store sells the twins of the RBH speakers under the name of EMP EF30 series.

The only listed differences being that the more expensive RBH's feature a lslightly more attractive physical appearance (means very little to me) and a "pulp Kraft cone" woofer and two fiberglass cone mid range drivers.

The EMP's include a "compressed cellulose composite" woofer and two poly graphite mid range drivers.

My Mission speakers I currently own feature woven glass drivers as do the RBH and I like them and am wondering if I should stick with the woven glass technology. To me they seem more sturdy and able to endure the test of time... but I have only ever owned cheap crap compared to my Mission speakers in the past.

Anyone familiar with driver construction know what the differences between the 2 are and why the RBH versions command a higher price and if those different driver materials are worth the extra money?

Last but not least, a somewhat unrelated question... I see some people love speaker grills and others abandon them. Is this strictly for aesthetic purpose or do the block any sound waves or frequency response?

Thanks in advance.

The material of the driver is not of over riding concern per se. However speakers made of different material will not be the same. The weight of the cones will be different for one thing, which will change the Thiel/Small parameters, calling for a different enclosure alignment. The cone breakup modes will be different, and so will the acoustic roll off requiring a different crossover.

What makes a good speaker, is how well the designer aligns his drivers, and above all how he works with the driver strengths and imperfections, to achieve a flat mid band response through crossover and deal with any in band peaks.

So if you have different drivers, and if two drivers are made of different material, they are different, then you have a different speaker.

Now if those cabinets are the same, and the crossovers are the same, at
least one of those speakers is going to be way off.

As far as grills go, if it is well made and of acoustically transparent material the acoustic effect is minimal, and related to reflections from the frame more than anything. Speakers unprotected by grills, have a habit of becoming damaged speakers.

What is wrong with your Mission speakers? If you are not careful you will get something a lot worse, and you are probably on your way.

 

[Exit]

I would concern myself with the overall sound of a speaker and not so much of the materials in the speakers or magnet sizes, etc. A lot of marketing goes on with those aspects of a speaker. The only exception where materials are a factor is if I wanted to put the speakers in a basement HT. Then I would get a speaker whose cones are moisture proof and avoid paper or pulp or anything else that absorbes moisture. Basement walls wick moisture constantly. Even if the HT is fully finished there are still higher levels of moisture from the floors and other unfinished parts of the basement.

 

[ThA tRiXtA]

What is wrong with your Mission speakers? If you are not careful you will get something a lot worse, and you are probably on your way.

Nothing is physically wrong with them, thay have been awesome speakers to me it's just that I am upgrading to a 7.1 system and I cannot find 2 more matching surround speakers to go along with the 5 I already have... so I am going to buy a package of 7 speakers that are sonically matched.

Can you please elaborate on why I potentially may be on my way to something worse than the Mission package? I don't see how either of the two packages I am looking at could be a step down...

 

[TLS Guy]

Nothing is physically wrong with them, thay have been awesome speakers to me it's just that I am upgrading to a 7.1 system and I cannot find 2 more matching surround speakers to go along with the 5 I already have... so I am going to buy a package of 7 speakers that are sonically matched.

Can you please elaborate on why I potentially may be on my way to something worse than the Mission package? I don't see how either of the two packages I am looking at could be a step down...

I would not obsess about perfectly matching the center backs. If you like the mission speakers, keep them!

I have not heard the speakers you are looking at, but the driver layout concerns me. Let's just say I wouldn't do it. I think Mission also have the better reputation. I'm just warning you to be careful. It is hard to get a set of speakers you really like. That is why there are so many cases of restless speaker syndrome in these forums. It is all too easy to not just make a step down replacing speakers, but fall right down the stairs. Remember bad speakers out number good ones, by a very wide margin, even among the high priced.

 

[markw]

If you are currently happy with the sound of your current speakers and your only reason for getting new speakers is that the matching 6th and 7th surround speakers aren't currently manufactured I'd strongly reconsider.

You can keep an eye out on ebay and varoius used equipment sites for matching bspeakers or even substitute another similar speaker for the rear surrounds, particularly if movies are your main concern. Mission isn't all that hard to find.

Of course, if you just want an excuse to upgrade, then never mind...

 

[ThA tRiXtA]

Hmmm... I dunno. Now you guys have me worried.

I bought these Missions on a recommendation from a friend a few years back, and I really didn't know a lot about speakers or home theater (not saying I know everything now either) but it's not like I even researched them at all... for all I know they may not be very good, I just have grown accustomed to them.

From all the reviews I have read on those RBH, they seem to be pretty well made and designed, but I see your point regarding staying with what you know.

Are you indicating that the audioholics review may be biased or inaccurate? I am not calling you a liar, you seem to be very knowledgeable about what you're saying, it's just that I am not, and when I try to absorb knowledge from someone I like to make sure I totally understand.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hmmm... I dunno. Now you guys have me worried.

I bought these Missions on a recommendation from a friend a few years back, and I really didn't know a lot about speakers or home theater (not saying I know everything now either) but it's not like I even researched them at all... for all I know they may not be very good, I just have grown accustomed to them.

From all the reviews I have read on those RBH, they seem to be pretty well made and designed, but I see your point regarding staying with what you know.

Are you indicating that the audioholics review may be biased or inaccurate? I am not calling you a liar, you seem to be very knowledgeable about what you're saying, it's just that I am not, and when I try to absorb knowledge from someone I like to make sure I totally understand.

Thanks for your patience.

Well! Your friend I think gave you good advice. I have found Mission speakers to have the all important smooth midband and be nicely voiced. You will easily find worse speakers, a lot worse.

Now when I see identical cabinets with different drivers, I'm really concerned. That smacks of amateurism, chasing the fast buck or both.

The most important advice, I have for you, is not to buy speakers based on a review. Audition the speakers, and make sure you can return them. Don't sell your Missions until you are certain their replacements are better.

Now you have had these speakers for a while and you still like them. That tells me they are likely what you want. I can assure you, that if you have any kind of a decent ear, you will not get used to bad speakers. Bad speakers irritate you more and more by the day. Then you will join the ranks of those afflicted with restless speaker syndrome.

 

[markw]

I'll try to ignore your rather unflattering implications in your last paragraph and simply state the following:

1) You can't tell a speakers sound by it's specs or reading what it's made of. If you think you can you're fooling yourself. The proof is in the listening.

2) Speakers are a matter of personal preference. There are many "good" well-made brand-name speakers that I wouldn't have in my house because I simply don't like their sound. Others do like their sound, or else they would not still be in business.

3) Just because others like the sound of a speaker and it's well built, it may not suit your tastes. Whenever you buy new speakers you the risk of winding up with something you don't like.

4) Since you seem to be satisfied with what you already have and improving your sound doesn't seem to be your stated goal, I think you're reading too much into the cautions you've received here.

5) Jettisoning a perfectly good pair of fine speakers for two additional rear surrounds is a questionable move and that's all that was being pointed out to you.

If you really want them, go for it. I'm sure they will be all that was promised (and perhaps then some) but bear in mind that since al speakers sound different, you may still prefer the sound of your current speakers.

 

[ThA tRiXtA]

Well! Your friend I think gave you good advice. I have found Mission speakers to have the all important smooth midband and be nicely voiced. You will easily find worse speakers, a lot worse.

Now when I see identical cabinets with different drivers, I'm really concerned. That smacks of amateurism, chasing the fast buck or both.

The most important advice, I have for you, is not to buy speakers based on a review. Audition the speakers, and make sure you can return them. Don't sell your Missions until you are certain their replacements are better.

Now you have had these speakers for a while and you still like them. That tells me they are likely what you want. I can assure you, that if you have any kind of a decent ear, you will not get used to bad speakers. Bad speakers irritate you more and more by the day. Then you will join the ranks of those afflicted with restless speaker syndrome.

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate, I see what you mean. I wish I could audition the RBH, but I can't even find a dealer in Canada lol. I guess I will look harder.

I'll try to ignore your rather unflattering implications in your last paragraph and simply state the following:

1) You can't tell a speakers sound by it's specs or reading what it's made of. If you think you can you're fooling yourself. The proof is in the listening.

2) Speakers are a matter of personal preference. There are many "good" well-made brand-name speakers that I wouldn't have in my house because I simply don't like their sound. Others do like their sound, or else they would not still be in business.

3) Just because others like the sound of a speaker and it's well built, it may not suit your tastes. Whenever you buy new speakers you the risk of winding up with something you don't like.

4) Since you seem to be satisfied with what you already have and improving your sound doesn't seem to be your stated goal, I think you're reading too much into the cautions you've received here.

5) Jettisoning a perfectly good pair of fine speakers for two additional rear surrounds is a questionable move and that's all that was being pointed out to you.

If you really want them, go for it. I'm sure they will be all that was promised (and perhaps then some) but bear in mind that since al speakers sound different, you may still prefer the sound of your current speakers.

Thanks for the help Markw, I appreciate your time. I hope you don't think I'm being negative on you, I just don't like to exaggerate my capacity in subjects where I know there are several people more well schooled than I.

I think I will follow both your advice and try and find something that can match up with what I already own... I found two of the exact same surrounds brand new in the box as I already own... the only difference is they are silver instead of black. I guess I can live with that and save a few bucks at the same time. If I really get desperate or whatever, maybe I can just paint them or something.

Thanks again guys.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate, I see what you mean. I wish I could audition the RBH, but I can't even find a dealer in Canada lol. I guess I will look harder.



Thanks for the help Markw, I appreciate your time. I hope you don't think I'm being negative on you, I just don't like to exaggerate my capacity in subjects where I know there are several people more well schooled than I.

I think I will follow both your advice and try and find something that can match up with what I already own... I found two of the exact same surrounds brand new in the box as I already own... the only difference is they are silver instead of black. I guess I can live with that and save a few bucks at the same time.

Thanks again guys.

Thanks for the feedback. Nice to know we could be of help, and you are welcome.