I know what you're saying sheep. I guess I just thought that the poster was looking for the impact and that "feel the music in your guts" reaction you get at a club. I wasn't saying we need to get him down to 20hz, just that we need to make sure his walls are shaking, lol. All of those speakers may be able to play low enough in the sound spectrum to reproduce the frequencies, but there never be that umph that a powered sub can add IMO. I've heard those athenas run off of a HK435, and the sound filled in nicely with the addition of a sub. A powered sub will pressurize a room far better than any of those speakers ever could, even a cheap little 12" advent or a nice little 10" from somewhere. .I've only seen a few speakers that could keep up with a powered sub's output and they required a heck of a lot of power and were a heck of a lot more than $500 a pair.