Dolby Surround & DTS Neural:X "Upmixers" on New Denon X2800 in a 5.1 System

[Trebdp83]

If a DTS/DTS-HD 2.0 96/24 disc is played, DTS Neural:X is not a selectable sound mode. A DTS 5.1/7.1/X 96/24 disc would also be locked out of the Neural:X sound mode. I'm not sure what is going on with those two discs exactly and I do not have them myself or a Denon receiver at the moment to try and replicate the issue. My Onkyo does not have a DTS 96/24 limitation and still has multiple sound modes for all DTS signals while most DTS modes have been dropped from newer Denon and Onkyo models for just DTS or DTS-HD with Denon having up mixer limitations for DTS 96/24 signals.

 

[Kaskade89052]

If a DTS/DTS-HD 2.0 96/24 disc is played, DTS Neural:X is not a selectable sound mode. A DTS 5.1/7.1/X 96/24 disc would also be locked out of the Neural:X sound mode. I'm not sure what is going on with those two discs exactly and I do not have them myself or a Denon receiver at the moment to try and replicate the issue. My Onkyo does not have a DTS 96/24 limitation and still has multiple sound modes for all DTS signals while most DTS modes have been dropped from newer Denon and Onkyo models for just DTS or DTS-HD with Denon having up mixer limitations for DTS 96/24 signals.

Well, when I played Christmas Vacation, with a 2.0 Master Audio track (stereo), the X2800 read "DTSHD + Neural:X" -- are you saying if this disc was sampled at 96/24 the upmixer DEFINITELY isn't being applied? Because when I played the film, the audio was placed properly for a stereo track -- dialogue was in the center and some ambient stuff was spread all around.

 

[Trebdp83]

It's not a 96/24 disc but a DTS HD MA 2.0 48/24 disc. Press the info button on the remote controller. What is the Signal info? What is the Sound(mode) info? Which of the Signal channel boxes are lit up? The Sound(mode) is supposed to display DTS Neural:X for DTS HD MA 2.0 48/24 tracks but if it is displaying DTS-HD + Neural:X as if it was a multichannel track it is no big deal. The up mixer is working properly.

 

[Kaskade89052]

It's not a 96/24 disc but a DTS HD MA 2.0 48/24 disc. Press the info button on the remote controller. What is the Signal info? What is the Sound(mode) info? Which of the Signal channel boxes are lit up? The Sound(mode) is supposed to display DTS Neural:X for DTS HD MA 2.0 48/24 tracks but if it is displaying DTS-HD + Neural:X as if it was a multichannel track it is no big deal. The up mixer is working properly.

I understand that it is "no big deal" because the track was steered properly -- but I wanted to know WHY it happened in case there was some kind of DISPLAY malfunction. There are others I have spoken to who claim they NEVER see the upmixer illuminate by itself when it's being used -- in other words, the front of the AVR reads "DTHD + DSurr" or "DTSHD + Neural:X" EVERY TIME a track is played that is using the upmixer for that particular signal. So, their AVRs NEVER show just "Dolby Surr" or "DTS Neural:X" by itself on the front. MY unit DOES show this on most content activating the upmixers, so I thought something was wrong.

Going back to the SIGNAL conversation -- I didn't press the info button when watching this disc, but I can. I'm not too familiar with sampling frequencies and the technicalities of the disc mastering, so if you could be a little patient with me with regard to this, I'd appreciate it; can you explain why the Christmas Vacation Blu-ray is a 48/24 disc and how this would affect the way the AVR shows the decoding?

 

[Trebdp83]

There is more than one version of this movie on blu-ray. Your particular disc has a DTS-HD MA 2.0 48/24 track. I can’t find any information about version of this movie having a DTS 96/24 track. New Denon models have up mixer restrictions for DTS/DTS-HD 96/24 2.0/5.1 tracks but that will not be an issue here.

“So, their AVRs NEVER show just "Dolby Surr" or "DTS Neural:X" by itself on the front. MY unit DOES show this on most content activating the upmixers, so I thought something was wrong.” Your unit should display “DTS Neural:X”when playing a DTS/DTS-HD 2.0 48/24 track because it defaults to the DTS up mixer. It should display “DTS/DTS-HD + Neural:X” when playing DTS/DTS-HD 5.1/7.1 48/24 tracks as that is the default for DTS multichannel tracks.

If the receiver is behaving in a way contrary to the way it should be behaving according to Denon’s manual, contact Denon for help. Before doing so, study the manual. You may find it is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing regarding a given signal.

 

[Kaskade89052]

There is more than one version of this movie on blu-ray. Your particular disc has a DTS-HD MA 2.0 48/24 track. I can’t find any information about version of this movie having a DTS 96/24 track. New Denon models have up mixer restrictions for DTS/DTS-HD 96/24 2.0/5.1 tracks but that will not be an issue here.

The version I am referring to is the THIRD one below, the newer Blu-ray steelbook (and I'm aware there are a few versions of this out there -- there was an original one-disc Blu-ray that was basically the ported-over DVD master, and I owned that one too, plus this remastered variant and then the UHD 4K).

“So, their AVRs NEVER show just "Dolby Surr" or "DTS Neural:X" by itself on the front. MY unit DOES show this on most content activating the upmixers, so I thought something was wrong.” Your unit should display “DTS Neural:X”when playing a DTS/DTS-HD 2.0 48/24 track because it defaults to the DTS up mixer. It should display “DTS/DTS-HD + Neural:X” when playing DTS/DTS-HD 5.1/7.1 48/24 tracks as that is the default for DTS multichannel tracks.

If the receiver is behaving in a way contrary to the way it should be behaving according to Denon’s manual, contact Denon for help. Before doing so, study the manual. You may find it is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing regarding a given signal.

Based on what you're saying above, it brings us back to the original issue I had -- even though my disc may have a 48/24 track, it's not technically MULTICHANNEL -- it's two-channel (2.0). Are you suggesting the AVR may be interpreting the 2.0 track as "multichannel" in this case because of the sampling frequency of the audio mix?

Because, again, the X2800 read "DTSHD + Neural:X" NOT just "DTS Neural:X."

 

[Trebdp83]

Yes, I am suggesting it as Denon's manual indicates that DTS-HD + Neural:X would not be a selectable sound mode with a DTS-HD 2.0 signal. Watch the 4K DTS-HD 5.1 version of the movie and be done with it already.

 

[Kaskade89052]

Yes, I am suggesting it as Denon's manual indicates that DTS-HD + Neural:X would not be a selectable sound mode with a DTS-HD 2.0 signal. Watch the 4K DTS-HD 5.1 version of the movie and be done with it already.

Appreciate the snark, but I do not own the 4K version nor do I want to replace the somewhat expensive Blu-ray steelbook variant we bought to replace the original Blu-ray. As I stated in a previous post, I would appreciate some patience as I learn about how these upmixers work -- it's new to me coming from a 2007 Onkyo.

I AM getting DTSHD + Neural:X when playing the 2.0 DTS HD Master Audio soundtrack on this disc -- so I am not following you.

 

[isolar8001]

Chevy Chase doesn't deserve mono even.

 

[Kaskade89052]

Chevy Chase doesn't deserve mono even.

From what I understand, he's a pretty nasty individual; there were all sorts of issues with him and the more recent entry into the Vacation franchise in terms of getting along with the crew, etc.

Why did you "agree" with Treb if you think he doesn't even deserve mono? What exactly are you agreeing with?

 

[Trebdp83]

I believe I’ve been more than patient considering it isn’t my job to teach anybody anything. I guess I’m just be filled with the holiday spirit. The manual contains the sound modes applicable to various signals. If one is confounding you when playing a certain disc, contact Denon.

 

[PENG]

On the topic of upmix, one thing I noticed is that when watching Youtube videos/movies, DTS:Neural X is much preferred, vs Dolby surround in the sense that it is more "musical", softer kind of overall sound whereas DDS is a few dB louder and seems more harsh sounding. That is totally opposite to what I read on the internet, as as the following individual's article on exactly DDS vs DTS:Neural X:

Dolby Surround Vs Neural X: The Ultimate Guide | Audio Curious

It got me curious for some time now since I switched from D+M to Anthem. I do not recall ever feeling that way when I was using my last Denon, the AVR-X4400H.

What's others opinions/impressions on DDS vs DTS:Neutral X?

Thank you.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

On the topic of upmix, one thing I noticed is that when watching Youtube videos/movies, DTS:Neural X is much preferred, vs Dolby surround in the sense that it is more "musical", softer kind of overall sound whereas DDS is a few dB louder and seems more harsh sounding. That is totally opposite to what I read on the internet, as as the following individual's article on exactly DDS vs DTS:Neural X:

Dolby Surround Vs Neural X: The Ultimate Guide | Audio Curious

It got me curious for some time now since I switched from D+M to Anthem. I do not recall ever feeling that way when I was using my last Denon, the AVR-X4400H.

What's others opinions/impressions on DDS vs DTS:Neutral X?

Thank you.

Hi peng! Been a while.
IME, DTSnx seems to use the overhead speakers more. This can be fun, but what I don’t like about that is it tends to put music up there. To me it sounds odd and unnatural. I still go back and forth between them, but probably use DS more often because of the music part, and it just seems more natural and smooth. Also, iirc, DTSnx can use the L and R overhead speakers independently where I think DS uses a mono output up there.