Dolby Atmos Speaker Placement

eastley

eastley

Audiophyte
Howdy All.

Trying to work out the best way to set up Dolby Atmos, if at all, as it seems to not be worth it unless done properly.

The Mrs does not want mounted speakers or in ceiling speakers.

So my options are, up-firing Atmos speakers pretty much, however, I have set up a set of bookshelf's on a angle, firing above seating position. I have attached an image to show you what I mean.
I have a Denon X3400H, so set these to front height speakers and ran the Audyssey setup to configure.

I suppose the question is, will the method I used actually work?
If so will it be better than up-firing speakers?
If this method sucks, will up-firing speakers be worth it anyway?

Thank you!!

Other option is to grab a set of Dali Alteco C-1 Atmos speaker and have them either as up-firing, on stnading up shooting sound above seating position.

Attached an image of them.
 

Attachments

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Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
No, you'd need actual up firing speakers.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
Howdy All.

Trying to work out the best way to set up Dolby Atmos, if at all, as it seems to not be worth it unless done properly.

The Mrs does not want mounted speakers or in ceiling speakers.

So my options are, up-firing Atmos speakers pretty much, however, I have set up a set of bookshelf's on a angle, firing above seating position. I have attached an image to show you what I mean.
I have a Denon X3400H, so set these to front height speakers and ran the Audyssey setup to configure.

I suppose the question is, will the method I used actually work?
If so will it be better than up-firing speakers?
If this method sucks, will up-firing speakers be worth it anyway?

Thank you!!

Other option is to grab a set of Dali Alteco C-1 Atmos speaker and have them either as up-firing, on stnading up shooting sound above seating position.

Attached an image of them.
Better tell the Mrs you are the King of the Castle:)
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
With the options you have presented...to be honest...I would pass and do without.

As you eluded, do it right or don't do it.

When I was considering atmos, I went to a local deal that had 2 rooms set up... a Klipsch upfiring atmos system and a Paradigm in ceiling set up...same content, but not really a true A/B comparison because they were in different rooms.

Both were realistic, but the in ceiling was better, easily better imo. That said, if you're really into movies and wanted that immersive experience...and in ceiling is not an option, the Klipsch was worth investing into.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I think you either get 2 ceiling speakers for ATMOS or don’t do it at all - don’t waste your time and money on those “modules”.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
I think you either get 2 ceiling speakers for ATMOS or don’t do it at all - don’t waste your time and money on those “modules”.
I mostly agree with this as I would never buy the speaker top atmos speakers that have to reflect off the ceiling or whatever, but at the same time if I didn't have attic access I would be comfortable with no Atmos speakers...that said, the Klipsch demo I sat was not terrible.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I mostly agree with this as I would never buy the speaker top atmos speakers that have to reflect off the ceiling or whatever, but at the same time if I didn't have attic access I would be comfortable with no Atmos speakers...that said, the Klipsch demo I sat was not terrible.
ATMOS, just like additional surround rear speakers, is like accessories for your toys.

It's more about trying "new" things.

If you are a publication or an Audio dealer, you might feel "obligated" to keep up with new formats. :D

I think for 99% of all people who have rooms smaller than 25', a 5.1.2-ATMOS setup is good. More doesn't hurt. Although I think 7.1.4 looks crowded when the room is like 14' x 18' x 8' ceiling.

The Salient speakers will always be the MAIN front 3 speakers and subwoofers. The surround speakers (including ceiling ATMOS speakers) are there to enhance the experience.

So a good 5.1 (especially w/ multiple subwoofers) system is great.

ATMOS, ONLY if done correctly with ceiling speakers, might give you a little more additional enhancement.
 
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2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
ATMOS, just like additional surround rear speakers, is like accessories for your toys.

It's more about trying "new" things.

If you are a publication or an Audio dealer, you might feel "obligated" to keep up with new formats. :D

I think for 99% of all people who have rooms smaller than 25', a 5.1.2 ATMOS setup is good. More doesn't hurt.

The Salient speakers will always be the MAIN front 3 speakers and subwoofers. The surround speakers (including ceiling ATMOS speakers) are there to enhance the experience.

So a good 5.1 (especially w/ multiple subwoofers) system is great.

ATMOS, ONLY if done correctly with ceiling speakers, might give you a little more additional enhancement.
All that and the content....as I eluded to, I did Atmos largely because I had easy access via the attic space over my loft area to drop in some in ceiling speakers...absent of that I'm quite certain I wouldn't have it all. But admittedly, I'm not in this hobby for movies.

That said, the handful of movies I have that are Dolby Atmos enhanced (that was a great description "enhance"") movies, one I felt really added some realism to the movie, the others were...eh
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
All that and the content....as I eluded to, I did Atmos largely because I had easy access via the attic space over my loft area to drop in some in ceiling speakers...absent of that I'm quite certain I wouldn't have it all. But admittedly, I'm not in this hobby for movies.

That said, the handful of movies I have that are Dolby Atmos enhanced (that was a great description "enhance"") movies, one I felt really added some realism to the movie, the others were...eh
It's kind of like 3D Video, isn't it? You might find one (Jame's Cameron's Avatar) that makes 3D's look awesome. But then most of the 3D movies just aren't any good.

3D Videos might enhance a person's video experience and ATMOS surround might enhance a person's surround sound experience.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
It's kind of like 3D Video, isn't it? You might find one (Jame's Cameron's Avatar) that makes 3D's look awesome. But then most of the 3D movies just aren't any good.

3D Videos might enhance a person's video experience and ATMOS surround might enhance a person's surround sound experience.
Exactly...my experience to the letter.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
I mostly agree with this as I would never buy the speaker top atmos speakers that have to reflect off the ceiling or whatever, but at the same time if I didn't have attic access I would be comfortable with no Atmos speakers...that said, the Klipsch demo I sat was not terrible.
The ceiling bounce approach to Atmos might not be optimal but some might argue that its still beyond 5.1.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
The ceiling bounce approach to Atmos might not be optimal but some might argue that its still beyond 5.1.
I’ve read that if you can get the height, and angle right, it can actually be really good, and iirc from early blind tests at Dolby, almost half preferred the upfiring version.(I suspect those people enjoy a diffusive soundfield in general)
While more diffuse than in ceiling, it’s still more immersive than 5/7.1. The critical part is getting the angle to the LP right.
So I agree, it’s beyond 5.1
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
With the options you have presented...to be honest...I would pass and do without.

As you eluded, do it right or don't do it.

When I was considering atmos, I went to a local deal that had 2 rooms set up... a Klipsch upfiring atmos system and a Paradigm in ceiling set up...same content, but not really a true A/B comparison because they were in different rooms.

Both were realistic, but the in ceiling was better, easily better imo. That said, if you're really into movies and wanted that immersive experience...and in ceiling is not an option, the Klipsch was worth investing into.
The problem with in ceiling is that the sound just fires straight down and in ceiling speakers are, in my opinion, very limited as a speakers. On ceiling speakers, with the depth of some of them, might put the speaker too close to the listener, thereby making the to sound easy to localize and not necessarily immersive . So what do you do, I guess everything to some degree might be a bit of a compromise and not optimal by Dolby standards.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...On ceiling speakers, with the depth of some of them, might put the speaker too close to the listener...
I also think it depends on the height of the ceiling.

If the ceiling height is 8 FT- 10 FT, ceiling speakers may be too close to the LP. In this case, upward-firing modules might be a better choice, especially if the ceiling is only 8 FT.

If the ceiling is 13 - 15 FT, then ceiling-mount speakers may have optimal distance to the LP.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
I also think it depends on the height of the ceiling.

If the ceiling height is 8 FT- 10 FT, ceiling speakers may be too close to the LP. In this case, upward-firing modules might be a better choice, especially if the ceiling is only 8 FT.

If the ceiling is 13 - 15 FT, then ceiling-mount speakers may have optimal distance to the LP.
You make some very good points. There is no one size fits all, some of it depends on what type a room a person have to know which best speaker layout is best.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
The problem with in ceiling is that the sound just fires straight down and in ceiling speakers are, in my opinion, very limited as a speakers. On ceiling speakers, with the depth of some of them, might put the speaker too close to the listener, thereby making the to sound easy to localize and not necessarily immersive . So what do you do, I guess everything to some degree might be a bit of a compromise and not optimal by Dolby standards.
True, but how many people set their L/R straight ahead with no toe in? Some IC speakers are very good(but as a general rule I loathe them) and have very wide dispersion. Dolby recommends 90 degrees and while it’s hard to find published specs, most manufacturers are happy to provide them with a quick email. Ceiling height will dictate much of the performance but there are good IC options out there. And aren’t there always compromises in HT? IMO atmos done pretty good is still more immersive than non atmos.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
The problem with in ceiling is that the sound just fires straight down and in ceiling speakers are, in my opinion, very limited as a speakers. On ceiling speakers, with the depth of some of them, might put the speaker too close to the listener, thereby making the to sound easy to localize and not necessarily immersive . So what do you do, I guess everything to some degree might be a bit of a compromise and not optimal by Dolby standards.
Well...you did say it was your opinion and I'll respect it as that, but in part I disagree with it...notably in ceiling speaker SQ.

In ceiling speaker limitations...I think that largely depends on the speaker. I have 2 pairs of Noble Fidelity 8" in ceiling speakers that image and have SQ that one must hear to appreciate. We've had gatherings at the house and when you crank these up, they don't cringe (distort). Instead they remain refined (clarity and detail) and offer bass that had some people thinking there was a sub hooked up and there is not. Triad has in ceiling speakers that will probably exceed the SQ of mine. Granted these speakers were nearly $1k a pair and would probably not equal the SQ of a traditional enclosed speaker in the same price range, but I disagree on very limited.

Surround concept...as we know, most of the signal that your getting from the surround speakers whether they be side, rear or Atmos are sound effects for the most part. While I agree you don't get much of a diffused sound from an in ceiling speaker, but I think the same is true of a traditional enclosed surround speaker. One that end I think 4 Atmos is more effective than 2 depending on your space and seating arrangement.

In terms of the Dolby standard, you might be better suited to know that than I am, but the two demo rooms I sat in (one a Klipsch setup with 4 upfiring speaker top Atmos) and the other a Paradigm system (with in 4 ceiling Atmos speakers)...same movie...one scene there was a plane flying overhead, and then a helicopter...another scene was rain hitting a galvanized roof....it wasn't a blind test, but I came away feeling the in ceiling room was considerably more convincing.
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
Another Atmos option that we use for smaller theaters with ceilings under 9 feet are Bipole InWall or OnWall speakers mounted in the ceiling. I learned this from studying some of Anthony Grimani's theater designs. It works very well.
 
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