Does anyone really care about the Center Channel?

[drinke]

I've been cruising this website (and others like it) for roughly 2 years now, looking for advice on everything from subs to amps, receivers and towers and one thing has been nagging on me lately. Why is it that no one ever asks for advice on the center channel? When it comes to home theater, this seems to be a rather critical component. Or is it?

One of the views I've encountered is that the center is merely redundant - that is - the fronts can do the job, so why spend the cash on the center when that cash could be used to buy higher-end more "critical" components.

But even among those who view the center as a worthy purchase, you seldom hear or read of anyone chiming in to say that they can't wait to updgrade their center, or how excited they are that their new center just arrived (this kind of excitement is generally reserved for subs, amps and towers). Perhaps as long as the center matches the other speakers (generally by manufacturer) it might not matter.

If this topic has been discussed recently, and I missed it, I apologize for wasting time. However, with the collective audio knowledge of this site's following, I wonder what others' think about this issue.

Assuming a limited HT budget (which most of us have), what would you advise?

Is a center channel a worthy investment? If so, what % of your budget might you allocate to it? Would you do the bare minimum (ie just match them) or would you get the top of the line center made by your chosen manufacturer?

 

[EJ1]

I care about the center channel but I agree that the center doesn't get brought up often. With my old setup, the center was $2,800 and the front pair was $650, haha. I guess most people worry about the fronts because they also do their 2 channel listening in the home theatre.

 

[jostenmeat]

Its been discussed recently, and repeatedly, even just by myself, as one single, modest contributor.

Indeed, the goal is to match the fronts. Its NOT about buying the best center speaker you can afford. For you are going backwards if the stage is unmatched.

What is the best match? An identical speaker to your mains.

The other benefits of having an identical speaker is that its no longer horizontal, or worse yet a horiz mtm. Vertically arrayed drivers are best. Period.

Even better would be to make sure all three speakers are on the same plane. Best panning and shifting of energy within the stage.

By not having the center, whether horiz or vertical, near the floor (within just a couple of feet), you are asking for midbass boosts that WILL mask dialogue.

You don't have to blow the entire load on the center. Not the right way to go about it. Spend it on the three fronts as a combined whole.

Voila.

 

[EJ1]

So essentially, the best front stage would have 3 identical speakers? My speakers are timbre matched now and it sounds much better than an awesome center speaker with subpar fronts.

 

[jostenmeat]

So essentially, the best front stage would have 3 identical speakers? My speakers are timbre matched now and it sounds much better than an awesome center speaker with subpar fronts.

Yep.

All upright, all on the same plane is best, at ear level.

Even better, for audio-first POV, yet with HT, is to have them all behind an AT screen for utterly "locked" dialogue.

If I could have a nickel for every time I've recommended three upright speakers, identically. Sooooooooo many people mount their flat panel on the wall a few ft high. Yet, they STILL get a large AV/TV stand/rack, forcing a horiz center.

What they SHOULD do, IMO, is buy a rack (like mine, $200 modular), and put it ANYWHERE else but the front. No lights for better immersion, less mass between speakers that might cause undue reflections and get in the way of imaging. Its actually cheaper this way too.

My 35ft HDMI cable is about $40. My URC RF-20 remote, including blaster, is $80 shipped. You'd have a setup that only the finest HTs typically have, and it would probably cost you less, not more.

[/rant]

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I too, care about my Center Channel but there is not a lot to talk about. Get the one that goes with your mains or get 3 identical speakers for the front sound stage.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Every time I have tried a center, I have ended up preferring phantom.
(In fact, I used to have a 5,1 system. Now I am back down to 2.0 and actually prefer it. This was all with the same mains, and everything else matching them!)

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I have tried using "phantom" and really dislike it. I feel as though, I lose the panning of sounds across the front stage and it seems like the dialog just screams at me from the main speakers.

Every time I have tried a center, I have ended up preferring phantom.
(In fact, I used to have a 5,1 system. Now I am back down to 2.0 and actually prefer it. This was all with the same mains, and everything else matching them!)

 

[Alex2507]

Indeed, the goal is to match the fronts. Its NOT about buying the best center speaker you can afford. For you are going backwards if the stage is unmatched.

there is not a lot to talk about. Get the one that goes with your mains or get 3 identical speakers for the front sound stage.

The preceding statements being the center channel wisdom in a nut shell, I can see how it would be hard to nail down something as small and simple as this in the expanse of the internet. IOW, I agree.

 

[rumonkey2]

Yep.

All upright, all on the same plane is best, at ear level.

Even better, for audio-first POV, yet with HT, is to have them all behind an AT screen for utterly "locked" dialogue.

If I could have a nickel for every time I've recommended three upright speakers, identically. Sooooooooo many people mount their flat panel on the wall a few ft high. Yet, they STILL get a large AV/TV stand/rack, forcing a horiz center.

What they SHOULD do, IMO, is buy a rack (like mine, $200 modular), and put it ANYWHERE else but the front. No lights for better immersion, less mass between speakers that might cause undue reflections and get in the way of imaging. Its actually cheaper this way too.

My 35ft HDMI cable is about $40. My URC RF-20 remote, including blaster, is $80 shipped. You'd have a setup that only the finest HTs typically have, and it would probably cost you less, not more.

[/rant]

Or, sacrifice perfect "video height" and build your own cabinet...(I couldn't wall mount BTW)
Hey, it's a budget system in a small room. But I revel in the sound, starting with the basic premise of matching fronts, all on the same plane...And, yes, there is a noticeable difference vs. a horizontal "matching" center...

 

[jliedeka]

Three identical front speakers all at the same height and distance from the listening position is the ideal. Most of us, however, live in the real world where we have to make compromises.

In my case, I could just get away with a vertical monitor for a center under my wall mounted TV. The problem is I'd like to get a bigger TV down the road which would cause part of the screen to be blocked.

A good compromise is a center from the same series as your mains. Some manufacturers take pains to reduce lobing by making them 2.5 or 3 way. I think lobing isn't a problem for most people since they prefer to sit as close as possible to the middle of the screen.

My real world recommendation is a center from the same speaker line centered on the screen and within a foot above or below. Additionally, I would angle the center up or down towards the listening position. It won't be perfect for multichannel audio but will be pretty good for movies.

Jim

 

[allargon]

A vertical floorstanding center is a nightmare for those of us with rear projection setups. Honestly, it will be difficult to properly configure even an in/on-wall configuration at ear height with a DLP. Trading off-axis listening for off-axis viewing is something most home theater enthusiasts would care about.

FTR, some (e.g., yours truly) of us do care about the center channel and complain about cheaping out on it quite a bit.

 

[gixxerific]

The whole thing with having 3 matching mains is really an unrealistic venture now isn't it for most people? Now I do totally understand the logic behind this. I also understand the problems with MTM centers. But let's face it, how many people can afford 3 mains, when looking at high end? Some can I'm sure you will say but MOST can't.

Than again how many high end manufactures sell singles. Sure some do, but not all of them. There are countless high end choices out there but what are you gonna do if you can't buy a single. You have to get a center that matches up with your system.

Don't get me wrong, if it were up to me I would have 3 mains kicking *** and taking names but don't see it happening in this household.

Maybe if I get 6 mains than I could put one on the ceiling!?!?!?

Dono

 

[the grunt]

Like jostenmeat and others I also recommend an identical vertical center whenever I see the question come up. Horizontal centers sound so bad IMO I recommend matching bookshelf speakers up front if one cant fit or doesn‘t want towers.

Every time I have tried a center, I have ended up preferring phantom.

I did too until I figured out I could do this.

A vertical floorstanding center is a nightmare for those of us with rear projection setups. Honestly, it will be difficult to properly configure even an in/on-wall configuration at ear height with a DLP.

Your right about getting it at ear height but since that picture was taken I put the mains on cinderblocks which put their tweeters within a few inches of the center’s tweeters. For movies this setup creates a sort of wall of sound effect (very movie-theater-like) while the pans across the front all stay in the same vertical plane. For 5.1 music the only difference I notice is that on some recordings it sounds like your are near the front row of a concert and looking up a little at the stage. Still seems very natural though.

 

[no1maestro]

I was fortunate to come across a used Niles center channel speaker with several switchable adjustments so as to be able to match it with different fronts. I think that a center of some kind is crucial to hearing the dialogue properly. It took little time to match it up to my Infinitys and it works wonderfully!!

 

[j_garcia]

For multichannel tracks, especially music, a center is a must and it should blend well with your mains (identical if possible as shown to the extreme above); period end of statement. For 2ch music on the other hand, you obviously don't need it.

 

[fredk]

I think lots of people care about the center, but it goes back to how most choose the system. The 'voice' of the system is the mains and most people choose based on the voice.

For the rp crowd, the best choice is dual vertical centers placed above and below the display. Thats exactly what I did. In my case, the bookshelves I chose use ecxactly the same drivers as the traditional center and are properly voiced to blend in perfectly.

I know of at least one person on this board that chose a system because it had a better designed center.

 

[DD66000]

I don't where you have been reading, but over the last two years I've posted to many threads about center speakers.

Now there have been many posts to this thread I need to respond to.
First its been said, many times, identical and in line is best, totally true, be unrealistic for most of us.

If one has a rptv you can still use a vertical center if its in the 2 ft tall range, to sit in front of a 65" screen. A smaller screen, and I assume a bit lower, maybe a shorter speaker.
If you are going to try that setup, tilt the center back, so the tweeter and midrange are firing to ear level. The sound may seem to be a bit low at times, and not at others. Kinda depends on the pitch of the voice.

One thing you can try is to have identical vertical centers, one top, one below. I tried it and it will lock the voice to the center of the screen. I just didn't like the look of a 2 ft tall center above the screen. Even laying down was too tall (15")

I do use an identical center, but those speaker's imaging is so good a phantom works equally as well. If you use a phantom and it sucks it the mains not providing a good soundstage. try repositioning them. if that doesn't work, new speakers or a center speaker is in order.

If you must use a horizontal center, use one that have the tweeter and midrange stacked vertically, or coax located.

Its been said may times before that one reason for a center is to lock the vocies to the screen for those sitting off center. true

If the dialog sucks and you have a center, I bet its a horizontal center w/o the tweeter, midrange stacked.

here is how it can work well with a RPTV

A bad center..........................................................coax LCR

Good centers

A speaker for all channels

 

[Midcow2]

Okay my opinion

I read the other posts and agree with a lot of what is said.

you want to maintain timbre across the front which is seamless sound. Obviously 3 identical speakers would do that or a center that matches the fronts. However with a third tower the sound can be off from the picture and a little bit unnerving if the HT speaker's sound does not appear to be coming from the speaker's mouth; the center needs to be in somewaht close proximity to the video.

Okay why a center at all? In movies most of the dialog comes from the center. If you want to listen to TV or DVDs then a great center is important.

I had a okay center before and music was awesome, but vsometimes it was hard to distinguish what they were saying in videos. Then I got an awesome center, maybe one of the best, movies an TV shows are par excellence to none.

If you only listen to music you can boot the center otherwise it is a critical component.

Take care!

MidCow2

P.S. - Nothing like good video with 33 degree Coors Light and a Golden Retriever ( and wife) sleeping beside you on the floor and the couch ( Yes, the dog is on the floor!!!)

 

[no. 5]

I've been cruising this website (and others like it) for roughly 2 years now, looking for advice on everything from subs to amps, receivers and towers and one thing has been nagging on me lately. Why is it that no one ever asks for advice on the center channel?

I suppose many people just don't think the center channel is "cool".

Enormous subwoofers are awesome, and seven foot tall main channels are cool, but the center channel? I mean, it's only where all the dialog comes from.