Does adding power really make a difference?

N

Neatweak

Audioholic Intern
I have a Pioneer vsx-819 and I use it to power 8 speakers through a monster cable ss4 speaker selector. The speakers used are JBL Venue Series Monitor 5-Inch 2-Way Speakers. The system is strickly used for playing loud music for long periods of time. The receiever i am using puts out 100 wpc, but i was wondering if i upgrade to a more powerfull amp will the sound increase at loud levels. The speaker selector is rated for max 150 wpc. If an amp is suggested, i will be looking to the used market and can pay no more then $250.00. any info would be great!
 
O

oppman99

Senior Audioholic
An external amp should give you less distortion at higher volume levels. If you crank your pioneer up enough that the sound is harsh or things don't sound right, you may be experiencing clipping. An external amp would help this. At a max budget of $250 it might be tough to find a solution. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in with recommendations. Outlaw and Emotiva are two brands that are known as good value products for the money. A number of forum members are fans of pro amps, but I don't have any experience with those.
 
N

Neatweak

Audioholic Intern
I have been looking on ebay for around 6 months now, and really like the adcom gfa 5400. I have heard it and it sounds great, but it offers only 25 more wpc then my pioneer.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
There's a major issue you'd need to overcome with your budget, and it's the fact your receiver isn't one that's capable of connecting a larger amplifier to it.

I would like to include that the 240 watt rating on those speakers is a huge oversight. I seriously doubt those speakers can handle 60 watts continuously. The receiver you have could break your speakers mechanically by overpowering them if you ran the volume to hot. Unfortunately if you want louder you're going to need new speakers, not a receiver or amplifier. Try to find something more efficient, a speaker with 90dB sensitivity instead of your speaker's 86 dB sensitivity. Klipsch is one manufacturer that comes to mind with efficiency. With your budget I'd recommend shopping used.
 
N

Neatweak

Audioholic Intern
and what is a pro amp. what are the differences, pro and cons. I have never heard of them.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I have been looking on ebay for around 6 months now, and really like the adcom gfa 5400. I have heard it and it sounds great, but it offers only 25 more wpc then my pioneer.
LOL, I have a GFA-5400 for sale on Audiogon. I can personally guarranty it has much more power than your receiver. It's got headroom, and lots of it. What your receiver claims as a peak power the Adcom will do continuously.
 
adwilk

adwilk

Audioholic Ninja
and what is a pro amp. what are the differences, pro and cons. I have never heard of them.
Its the exact same as an exotic "audiophile" amp but with much higher value and missing a pretty finish.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
and what is a pro amp. what are the differences, pro and cons. I have never heard of them.
A pro amp, or professional amplifier, is an amplifier meant for live performances, sound reinforcement, and other rugged commercial use. People often use them for home amplifiers because they are usually very cost effective. They have a few downsides compared to home audio amplifiers, which is that they are often utilitarian design which some don't find very appealing. Some of them also have fans in them which can make noise, but it's not likely a person looking to be loud with their music will ever hear the fans. Pro amplifiers are every bit as good as home audio amplifiers, and typically offer better bang for your buck.

As I mentioned in the above post though, virtually any pro amp, home amp, and most receivers have plenty of power to physically destroy the drivers on those speakers you are currently using. Your limitations in output are mostly the dynamic limitations of the speakers, not the receiver or amplification that might be used.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ha, am I a good guesser or what. Those speakers are rated 60 watts continuous, LOL.
 
N

Neatweak

Audioholic Intern
hahah im glad im talking to you then haha. when the speakers are connected through the speker selector how much power is getting to each speaker if I have 4 pairs hooked up?
 
adwilk

adwilk

Audioholic Ninja
hahah im glad im talking to you then haha. when the speakers are connected through the speker selector how much power is getting to each speaker if I have 4 pairs hooked up?
Seth will give you a real answer I'm sure, but I'm trying to lessen the percentage of my posts in the steam vent. :D

It all depends, The volume, the type of music, the frequency, the impedance, blah blah all determine how much power the speakers are going to ask for. Rest assured, its not likely at all that your speaker selector (impedance matching) is a bottleneck.

That said, everything you put between the voice coil (driver) and the source, can have an effect on the sound.
 
N

Neatweak

Audioholic Intern
ok yo kind of lost me. haha i guess what i am asking is how much continous power is reaching the speakers. Im not sure if this helps but each speaker is hooked up to a 62.5 foot span of 16 guage speaker wire and the selector has 14 guage from the receiver to the speaker selector. also i made an error in the model number of my receiver it is a pioneer vsx 815 k
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Well, I'm assuming you get half of whatever the receiver can put out. So lets assume it can put out 100 watts (which is what they say it does, and it may very well do). This is also assuming your speaker selector is impedance matching and makes sure your 8 ohm speakers when paired still impose an 8 ohm load on the receiver. Then you would get 50 watts to each speaker, which is still more than enough for those speakers. One pair of speakers with 90dB efficiency will be louder than your two pair of speakers. Also keep in mind if you search for used speakers and loud is your thing that you look for something very efficient. I would also look for something bigger than what you have, maybe some floorstanding Klipsch or Cerwin Vegas, again if loud is your thing. Another brand to look at if you want to buy new and are on a tight budget would be Premier Acoustic by BIC.

http://www.bicacoustechspeakers.com/closeup.asp?cid=54&pid=195&offset=0
 
adwilk

adwilk

Audioholic Ninja
ok yo kind of lost me. haha i guess what i am asking is how much continous power is reaching the speakers. Im not sure if this helps but each speaker is hooked up to a 62.5 foot span of 16 guage speaker wire and the selector has 14 guage from the receiver to the speaker selector. also i made an error in the model number of my receiver it is a pioneer vsx 815 k
Unless you test it and measure it, there's really no way to know.

I was shocked once upon a time that my speakers (Klipsch RF7 105db sensitivity) averaged less than 4 watts. And it was LOUD.
 
N

Neatweak

Audioholic Intern
Ok so here is somemore information that I hope will help. I made an error in the model number of my receiver, it is a pioneer vsx 815 k. Second Each speaker has a 16 guage 62.5 span from the selector to the speaker and 14 guage from the receiver to the selector. Also there are to donated sony sa 3500 subwoofers that are hooked up through a splitter. The system is in a fraternity house and is used for parties with music playing for 3-6 hours at very loud levels. Also the 8 speakers are spread throughout 3 rooms in an L shape, around 850 sqf.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
ok yo kind of lost me. haha i guess what i am asking is how much continous power is reaching the speakers. Im not sure if this helps but each speaker is hooked up to a 62.5 foot span of 16 guage speaker wire and the selector has 14 guage from the receiver to the speaker selector. also i made an error in the model number of my receiver it is a pioneer vsx 815 k
Ah, the 815 does have preouts. So you can connect an amplifier too it. I think that's something you could look into down the road. Right now you should focus on speakers and worry about power later. Most people that don't know about this hobby get consumed by the "wattage" of the components they are using and disregard all other factors. Wattage is not a measure of loudness, it's a measurement of power. For example, a semi tractor has a lot of power, yet it is incredible inefficient and if speed and exceleration are performance you expect you won't get it from the semi, even though it has all that power. Now you take a Corvette or another sports car. The car goes much faster and excelerates faster, but it does so with a much smaller engine than a semi.

A stereo is the sum of it's parts, so I will apply the logic of vehicles to your stereo. Assume that a Ford F150 pickup and Mustang GT come stock with the same engine (I know they don't, but it's as close as I care to get and it works for this comparison). The receiver is symbolized by the engine and the rest of the vehicle will be symolized by the speakers. You are currently using a F150 (JBLs) but you'd like to get more speed (output). So you start to consider getting a Mustang GT (new speakers with better sensitivity) because you want that extra speed (output). Because the Mustang GT is a more efficient design it will go faster. So more efficient speakers, ones with a higher sensitivity to their input wattage, will be louder given the same wattage the JBLs have been getting.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ok so here is somemore information that I hope will help. I made an error in the model number of my receiver, it is a pioneer vsx 815 k. Second Each speaker has a 16 guage 62.5 span from the selector to the speaker and 14 guage from the receiver to the selector. Also there are to donated sony sa 3500 subwoofers that are hooked up through a splitter. The system is in a fraternity house and is used for parties with music playing for 3-6 hours at very loud levels. Also the 8 speakers are spread throughout 3 rooms in an L shape, around 850 sqf.
So it's not just 4 speakers, it's 8 total speakers (same model)? If that's the case then yes, you need more power.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1259986742
 
N

Neatweak

Audioholic Intern
and seth I have a pair of klipsch f-3's and and c-3 in my theater at home paired with an Integra DTR 8.4. they make me cry. lol
 
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