Do you guys recommend 3D TV?

S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
I have watched a couple of 3D movies in theater. The first was well...first time experience. The second movie I did not feel very comfortable. I read the article here about 3D TV and eye strain, but it seemed to sway back and forth.

I was wondering,
1. Has the industry done "enough research"? If not, do we have any concerns already? More importantly, what do you guys recommend?

Kinda Moot point's,

2. I read here, '3D TV trades off temporal resolution to achieve 3D', which is not so great for sports. Did a quick search, in vain. Is this true?
3. ...and not going 3D seems to save quite a bit of money and makes room for maybe a bigger TV.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I've only seen a couple of movies in the theaters where I would say that 3D actually enhanced the experience. And they were "gimmick" 3D movies, like Piranha 3D and Jackass 3D :p With every other 3D movie I've seen - including Avatar - I preferred the 2D version where the image was brighter, the motion looked stable and smooth, and the image just looked sharper and higher in resolution.

In the home market, I find all of the current 3D LCDs to be disappointing. They all exhibit substantial "cross-talk". Some worse than others, but not one of them is acceptable to me.

The only 3D television that has impressed me have been Panasonic's plasmas. Samsung's plasmas also generally look fine, but I've noticed their infamous "phosphor" lag on a couple of occassions, which decreases both 2D and 3D image quality in my eyes.

It is a happy coincidence that Panasonic's 3D plasmas are also the best 2D displays available at the moment. Essentially, to me, choosing which TV to buy is insanely easy these days. You get a Panasonic plasma!

For my super picky nature, the VT30 series is worth the extra cost. But you can get a very large (65") ST30 for substantially less while giving up relatively little in the way of image quality. 3D performance on either series is as good as 3D gets at home right now.

Another nice benefit is that Panasonic's new PT-AE7000U front projector makes use of the same active-shutter glasses that are used with Panny's plasmas. So while you can't use the Panny glasses with any other brand, at least you can use the same pairs for both your plasmas and your front projection setup if you have one. The 7000U is also one of the better 3D performers according to all of the early testers. Panasonic really focused on getting cross-talk as minimal as possible, so at least one brand out there actually gives a crap, rather than trying to cram 2nd and 3rd rate 3D down our throats.

Where 3D shines most is with videogames. Hook up a powerful 3D gaming PC to your Panny 3D plasma and you can revel in the best 3D images that you're going to see anywhere! The PS3 and Xbox360 offer a handful of 3D games, but the resolution is decreased in order to permit the extra processing needed for 3D and it doesn't look anywhere near as good as what a high-dollar PC can muster. I fully expect the PS4 and Xbox3 to manage some great looking 3D gaming though.

For broadcast 3D television, you are losing resolution because the signal still needs to fit within the existing 1080i or 720p broadcast. For each frame or field, the left and right eye images are packed either top-and-bottom or side-by-side. Either way, you're giving up half of your resolution for each eye. So instead of a 1920 x 1080 interlaced 2D image, you're getting a 1920 x 540 interlaced image for each eye in most cases with broadcast 3D TV. Being interlaced, you're essentially seeing a 960 x 540 resolution image at any given moment. So it's hardly as crisp or sharp as it ought to be.

Overall, I really can't say that I think 3D is worth it. There's very little content and what content does exist isn't really enhanced by 3D. In fact, for most of it, I prefer the way it looks in 2D. I really only like 3D for the "gimmick" movies that really play with the effect or for gaming on a powerful PC.

That said, if you just want to get yourself the best TV that you can right now, you're going to want a Panasonic plasma. It just so happens that it's likely going to have 3D capability - even though that isn't the primary reason at all to buy one ;)
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The big thing is that if you want a quality TV, it will be 3D capable. The fact that you may never use it as a 3D display has no impact whatsoever on the 2D viewing quality. You may be able to afford a larger 2D only display if you eliminate 3D, but you won't ever be looking at a top of the line 2D TV unless you also happen to have 3D included in that display.

While the VT30 is an excellent display, there is a great deal of worth to consider the other displays on the market such as the Samsung displays including plasmas and LCDs as well as the Sony LCDs.

I opted for a Samsung 64" Plasma over the Panasonic plasma and really have no regrets about it. Not sure what 'phospher lag' is, but it certainly isn't likely as bad as what LCD contends with when it tries to give us 3D and my experience so far with the Samsung has been significantly better than the 3D LCDs I've looked at so far.

I would expect similar, or better from Panny.

3D is not worth it, but a quality 2D display IS worth it.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
If you already have a great 2d TV than I recommend waiting out a few years.

Personally Avatar is the only 3d movie I've seen I thought worthy of the effort. Oh yeah forgot about Tron.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
"Phosphor lag" is when you have something like a bright object on screen, then you suddenly go to an all black screen, but a trace image of the bright object remains on screen for just a split second because the phosphors in the plasma display cannot switch "off" fast enough.

I catch this error all the time on Samsung and LG plasmas. Sometimes it's there straight out of the box. Other times, it takes a few hundred hours for the problem to "develop". It doesn't even get noticed by a lot of people. Especially if they are used to LCD, where the problem of a "lagging" image is even more pronounced and commonplace. I haven't seen the problem crop up on Pioneer plasmas or Panasonic's newest plasmas though, which is why I can spot it when it happens on other displays :p
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
I used to think I was the only soul who aint happy with 3D, looks like am not alone :D. Everyone I have spoken to back here are so overwhelmed by this new tech and are just jumping into it.

Thanks for the post FirstReflection. Will come back to your post when I start looking for one, not sure when though. I still am researching this vast TV segment to understand how it works (480, 576, 720, 1080, i's, p's, 24/25/30/50/60 p, LED, LCD, Plasma, Refresh Rates, Frame Rates, .........oh boy :D).

The big thing is that if you want a quality TV, it will be 3D capable. The fact that you may never use it as a 3D display has no impact whatsoever on the 2D viewing quality. You may be able to afford a larger 2D only display if you eliminate 3D, but you won't ever be looking at a top of the line 2D TV unless you also happen to have 3D included in that display.

While the VT30 is an excellent display, there is a great deal of worth to consider the other displays on the market such as the Samsung displays including plasmas and LCDs as well as the Sony LCDs.

I opted for a Samsung 64" Plasma over the Panasonic plasma and really have no regrets about it. Not sure what 'phospher lag' is, but it certainly isn't likely as bad as what LCD contends with when it tries to give us 3D and my experience so far with the Samsung has been significantly better than the 3D LCDs I've looked at so far.

I would expect similar, or better from Panny.

3D is not worth it, but a quality 2D display IS worth it.
I have to check the models. We must have different models or a variation at least, as I live in Pal Based region, India. So TV's here should be like 50, 100Hz, 200Hz, unlike NTSC 60, 120, 240.

If you already have a great 2d TV than I recommend waiting out a few years.

Personally Avatar is the only 3d movie I've seen I thought worthy of the effort. Oh yeah forgot about Tron.
You could say I live in the 80's. We have a 29" CRT :D.
HiDef broadcast is just catching up here since last few months (6-8 channels, and some cables give it upscaled :mad:, my Marantz can do that). The manufacturers & sellers are pushing 3D Big time over here too!

...and is there any specific reason that you recommend to wait?
 
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P

Parrot_HD

Enthusiast
Anyone else feel nauseous when watching 3D.

I just bought a Samsung 7000-series that came free with Shrek/Megamind.

Got half way through Megamind and had to stop the movie.
 
tattoo_Dan

tattoo_Dan

Banned
I have to wear glasses to read and work and work at my computer,

I don't want to wear glasses relaxing in my ht watching a movie.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
The big thing is that if you want a quality TV, it will be 3D capable. The fact that you may never use it as a 3D display has no impact whatsoever on the 2D viewing quality. You may be able to afford a larger 2D only display if you eliminate 3D, but you won't ever be looking at a top of the line 2D TV unless you also happen to have 3D included in that display.
Are you saying that a quality 2D set will not beat out a 3D set doing 2D? :confused:
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Are you saying that a quality 2D set will not beat out a 3D set doing 2D? :confused:
In a way, I suppose we are saying that. For example, the best 2D TVs right now are ones like the Panasonic TC-PxxVT30 or the Samsung PNxxD7000 plasmas. They are the best 2D TVs available at the moment, and they also happen to be 3D capable TVs as well. You won't find a current 2D-only TV that will "beat out" the VT30 or PND7000. The discontinued Pioneer and Pioneer Elite Kuro plasmas from years ago can still beat today's best TVs in a couple of areas, but we can't call them "current" anymore because they haven't been manufactured in years. And on the LCD side, there are the Sharp/Pioneer Elite LCDs that are excellent in many ways - but IMO useless since they have a mirror-like, glossy screen - but they too are 3D-capable.

So we're not saying that there's no such thing as a good 2D-only TV. But if you're looking for the "best" 2D performance, currently, it's going to come from a TV that also happens to be 3D-capable.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
In a way, I suppose we are saying that. For example, the best 2D TVs right now are ones like the Panasonic TC-PxxVT30 or the Samsung PNxxD7000 plasmas. They are the best 2D TVs available at the moment, and they also happen to be 3D capable TVs as well. You won't find a current 2D-only TV that will "beat out" the VT30 or PND7000. The discontinued Pioneer and Pioneer Elite Kuro plasmas from years ago can still beat today's best TVs in a couple of areas, but we can't call them "current" anymore because they haven't been manufactured in years. And on the LCD side, there are the Sharp/Pioneer Elite LCDs that are excellent in many ways - but IMO useless since they have a mirror-like, glossy screen - but they too are 3D-capable.

So we're not saying that there's no such thing as a good 2D-only TV. But if you're looking for the "best" 2D performance, currently, it's going to come from a TV that also happens to be 3D-capable.
Copied from another thread:
Value Electronics recently held their annual shootout - the Sharp Elite won.
Value Electronics HDTV Shootout page
http://www.valueelectronics.com/images/pdf/VE 2011 shoot-out results.pdf
Sharp Elite wins Value Electronics' HDTV shootout | TV and Home Theater - CNET Reviews

It easily had the best contrast ratio & black levels when compared to a P65VT30 and a PN59D8000.
 
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