do Yamaha YPAO results actually mean anything?

M

markeh

Audiophyte
OK - I'm new at this - the last time I purchased equipment it was all analog. Here is my story/question:

I purchased a Yamaha RX-1050, along with a Definitive Sub. This is two channel audio (music) only.

I set up my system with old Polk bookshelf speakers hanging around, and ran YPAO. The results looked weird. The speakers (all 3) were actually about 10 feet away, but YPAO reported the two front speakers as abt 10 feet, the Sub 20 feet away. Levels were also set - the 2 front at +10db, the back at about -10 - a 20db difference. Seemed pretty odd to me. Of course front speakers reported as large, which is apparently some type of defect in the algorithm - these speakers were tiny.

Replaced Polks with a pair of Klipsch (trying out to decide if I want to keep). Results got even weirder. YPAO reported the 2 front at about 10feet (correct), the sub now at 1 foot away (ridiculous) Levels as above.

It gets weirder. I better understand the 1050, so I go into manual mode and look at the parametric settings that YPAO generated.

Both front speakers have a bump at about 80 hz, where I would expect the sub to be working. The also have an interesting curve at the mid-high end which for all I know is correct. The sub has a huge bump at 250hz, which I doubt it could even reproduce.

Overall the sound to me is a little "hot" through the mid range, but not terrible. Maybe I just need to get used to it, or maybe I don't get what's being done.

Is there something I'm missing? Is YPAO (in my 2.1 speaker setup) useful, or should it be ignored?


thnx,


.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
OK - I'm new at this - the last time I purchased equipment it was all analog. Here is my story/question:

I purchased a Yamaha RX-1050, along with a Definitive Sub. This is two channel audio (music) only.

I set up my system with old Polk bookshelf speakers hanging around, and ran YPAO. The results looked weird. The speakers (all 3) were actually about 10 feet away, but YPAO reported the two front speakers as abt 10 feet, the Sub 20 feet away. Levels were also set - the 2 front at +10db, the back at about -10 - a 20db difference. Seemed pretty odd to me. Of course front speakers reported as large, which is apparently some type of defect in the algorithm - these speakers were tiny.

Replaced Polks with a pair of Klipsch (trying out to decide if I want to keep). Results got even weirder. YPAO reported the 2 front at about 10feet (correct), the sub now at 1 foot away (ridiculous) Levels as above.

It gets weirder. I better understand the 1050, so I go into manual mode and look at the parametric settings that YPAO generated.

Both front speakers have a bump at about 80 hz, where I would expect the sub to be working. The also have an interesting curve at the mid-high end which for all I know is correct. The sub has a huge bump at 250hz, which I doubt it could even reproduce.

Overall the sound to me is a little "hot" through the mid range, but not terrible. Maybe I just need to get used to it, or maybe I don't get what's being done.

Is there something I'm missing? Is YPAO (in my 2.1 speaker setup) useful, or should it be ignored?


thnx,


.
Rerun YPAO after setting your front speakers to small and skip the speaker sizing.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
the 2 front at +10db, the back at about -10
Your sub, (the "back"), is too loud. YPAO is trying to balance your speakers. It's turning your fronts UP as much as it can, and your sub DOWN as much as it can. (Its control is limited to +/-10dB max.)

If you have a volume or gain control on the sub itself, turn it down. Way down. Rerun YPAO, playing w/ different gains on the sub, until YPAO sets your fronts & sub at or very near ZERO. (Now YOU will have full control of the +/-10dB capability in your receiver, and can make adjustments to your taste.)

Some general stuff after YPAO:
> Set your speakers to SMALL
> Play w/ your crossover settings, probably starting ~80Hz
> Forget whatever distance YPAO says about your speakers or sub. It has to do with phase matching, not real distance.
> Frequency bumps and dips are another issue, and have nothing to do with YPAO.
 
Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
I have a Yahama RX-A1050 but find YAPO totally useless.
Used it a few times and had to change everything.
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic General
I just ran YPAO on my Yamaha RX-A1020 since I installed new front speakers (DefTech StudioMonitor 65).
I made sure all speakers were set to 'small' and after running YPAO, it thinks the front ones are 'large'. If I understand the manual correctly, LARGE means the speakers can reproduce low-frequency signals effectively. Once I get around to connecting a 2nd sub, will do it all over!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I just ran YPAO on my Yamaha RX-A1020 since I installed new front speakers (DefTech StudioMonitor 65).
I made sure all speakers were set to 'small' and after running YPAO, it thinks the front ones are 'large'. If I understand the manual correctly, LARGE means the speakers can reproduce low-frequency signals effectively. Once I get around to connecting a 2nd sub, will do it all over!
Think of YPAO as a suggestion to use bass management (small), or not (large), but generally with a sub you want to set them as small after running YPAO, which resets them as per the result of running YPAO.
 
Last edited:
Dan Madden

Dan Madden

Audioholic
Oh for God's sake ! Do all your adjustments yourself and ditch the auto calibration. Set your left and right speakers to small. Set the sub crossover to 80 hz. Set your speaker and sub distances manually. Set your left and right speaker output levels to balance using an SPL meter at a volume that you would normally listen to music. The sub's output is another matter. Set that manually using your ears while playing music. Preferably something simple like a well recorded jazz CD. When the sub compliments the mains (Not dominates them) with music it is set up properly. Remember, the sub's placement is paramount as to how it will perform. Easy !
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
Very true. I have also set all levels with a SPL meter in the past... One biggie, I have also set levels at the volume I normally listen too, not. (0). Usually -10 . YPAO puts my Z9 at +10 while making adjustments..
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
I just ran YPAO on my Yamaha RX-A1020 since I installed new front speakers (DefTech StudioMonitor 65).
I made sure all speakers were set to 'small' and after running YPAO, it thinks the front ones are 'large'. If I understand the manual correctly, LARGE means the speakers can reproduce low-frequency signals effectively. Once I get around to connecting a 2nd sub, will do it all over!
YPAO can set speakers large even if they are not. How the speaker reacts to the room can cause a false reading. For example, depending on where the speakers are located in the room, boundary gain can cause it to being identified as large. It's best to set all your speakers small And set your preferred crossover point , then just.( SKIP) that step
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
YPAO is not a tool to be followed blindly, as well as Audyssey.. One needs to make adjustments first before running such tests. Like HERBU said, make sure volume on the back of the subs are not set to high. Depending on the room, and depending on where the sub is located, subwoofers are also affected by boundary gain. Try your sub at 8 o'clock on the back. Then run YPAO.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
It should be noted that different versions of any room correction software will give different results. The early adaptations for some were quite problematic in some areas. Nulls and standing waves seem to be the issues most rooms present and without addressing those issues prior to auto / manual EQ, no room correction will perform miracles. Getting serious about this portion of our hobby will require more equipment and some type of learning curve and lots of time.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
True, I prefer to do everything manually anyways. No auto calibration set up is 100% perfect !!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
True, I prefer to do everything manually anyways. No auto calibration set up is 100% perfect !!
On the other side of that coin, your manual approximations may not be any better and will take more gear/time to boot. YMMV. Of course good speaker/sub placement and the room still have the major impact over some slight adjustments to delay/level/eq.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
I just ordered a galaxy audio CM-130. I believe this will be more accurate than the older RadioShack SPL meter
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I just ordered a galaxy audio CM-130. I believe this will be more accurate than the older RadioShack SPL meter
Curious, why not elevate above an spl meter altogether and get a measurement mic and some software like REW?
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
Just figured that was a lot more money. I do not own a laptop. I have iPads..
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
Let me rephrase that, not more money, but much much more involved. Iv never used it. I would love too learn tho. I see all the free downloads
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
And what measurement Mic would you use ? Is the mic available on Amazon ?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I use the Dayton Omnimic system myself, a bit more money but seemed like it would be easier to start with plus I can use the mic for REW and other purposes anyways. If I were to do it over I'd probably just get a calibrated usb mic like the miniDSP Umik-1 or the Dayton UMM-6. Maybe even splurge and get the calibrated versions from Cross Spectrum. I didn't search Amazon except for the Omnimic to see if its available that way (I bought mine from parts-express.com, where I get most of my speaker/sub supplies).

PS Long time pc laptop user so a more natural fit for me perhaps, never an Apple guy.
 

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