Do subwoofers benefit high-end, audiophile-quality rigs with full-range speakers?

[TLS Guy]

I was thinking 2ch music actually. For HT, is a must in my view.

I think these days most speakers could benefit from subs even for music. If a speaker's F3 is even above 30 Hz by a marginal amount it will benefit from a sub. These days very few speakers have an F3 in that ball park, with most in the 40 to 50 Hz range for towers and 50 to 60 Hz for bookshelf speakers. If you are a pipe organ afficionado then you need a sub going down into the low 20s. The largest 32 ft pipe stop has a frequency of 16 Hz, but most decent subs will reach that with room gain.

 

[Kingnoob]

Bottom line, the level of bass you want is purely subjective. If it sounds good to you without subs, then you don't need subs.

I’ve never heard speakers this expensive does there super heavy weight produce louder bass then regular sized towers? In that case I wouldn’t bother with subs unless they are 15”+ if op tried a 12” rel and it wasn’t enough. They might not be necessary at all if the music isn’t bass heavy. Very few people can actually afford these speakers. I guess it’s an easy decision if bass is not enough for them to say.

 

[Bobby Bass]

I don’t think the source would have significant impact. I don’t spin vinyl but listen to classic rock on CD and through streaming and I noticed a difference with one sub and then moved to two and I’m happy with the sound. I’m also a bass head so it was worth it for me. Did you notice an improvement when you added the sub? If yes, suggest you try a 2nd and return it if it doesn’t make a difference. Only you will know if it’s worth it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

does the heavy weight produce louder bass than smaller towers?

Depends on size of speaker (volume, W x D x H) and size of drivers. If each tower has two or four 12” woofers like the RBH SVTR or SVTRS towers that Gene owns, then it will likely produce ACTUAL REAL subwoofer bass.

The Amati Tradition tower only has 2 x 8” woofers. So it’s NOT going to produce real subwoofer bass. But if the OP feels that is all the bass he wants to hear, then that is all that matters to him.

 

[Tankini]

I am devastated to learn that all of the AM/FM radio music we all cut our teeth on the 60s, 70s and 80s is garbage. LOL Hell, that's the whole reason i learned to love music! LOL

Please enlighten us on what music is NOT garbage? I'm sure there are others wondering about the same thing. I always like to keep an open mind so that i may learn something new.

But it was/is garbage music. All of the magic is done in recording studios my friend. To feed the sheep.

 

[lovinthehd]

But it was/is garbage music. All of the magic is done in recording studios my friend. To feed the sheep.

Not all studio efforts improved on live recordings....unless you're thinking about groups like The Monkees or The Knack or similar made for tv groups....where it was the studio that was necessary

 

[Tankini]

Not all studio efforts improved on live recordings....unless you're thinking about groups like The Monkees or The Knack or similar made for tv groups....where it was the studio that was necessary

Can't say your wrong, live vs record in a studio vs live performance. Anyone that has listening to Johnny Cash, He picked his guitar strings very carefully, meaning choice of guitar strings he used. His style for the lack of a better word, live or recorded sounded the same at least to me anyways, others may not think so. Sure studios use a lot of reverb some more than others some less Cheers! Chris! Glad your back!

 

[TLS Guy]

Depends on size of speaker (volume, W x D x H) and size of drivers. If each tower has two or four 12” woofers like the RBH SVTR or SVTRS towers that Gene owns, then it will likely produce ACTUAL REAL subwoofer bass.

The Amati Tradition tower only has 2 x 8” woofers. So it’s NOT going to produce real subwoofer bass. But if the OP feels that is all the bass he wants to hear, then that is all that matters to him.

That is not true. It depends on the T/S parameters of the drivers and the alignment of the design. However if you have smaller drivers with the right T/S parameters you can have a low F3.

The KEF B 139 is a relatively small driver and because of its shape can be put in a slim cabinet. However, it really does not need a sub. A good design for a KEF B139 does not require a sub for good performance. The problem is the sensitivity is low, but the driver takes 200 watts without a sweat.

In Europe and especially the UK, subs are not popular. So it is no wonder the KEF B 139 is back in production. The other issue is that you need a three way design for the B139 as it has to be crossed optimally at 400 Hz and certainly by 500 Hz.

These speakers sound just fine with no sub, with plenty of bass. However, it takes a decent sized amp.

A receiver would likely struggle to power them to decent spl. That has been the move for higher sensitivity and higher F3, and requirement for a sub or two.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That is not true. It depends on the T/S parameters of the drivers and the alignment of the design. However if you have smaller drivers with the right T/S parameters you can have a low F3.

The KEF B 139 is a relatively small driver and because of its shape can be put in a slim cabinet. However, it really does not need a sub. A good design for a KEF B139 does not require a sub for good performance. The problem is the sensitivity is low, but the driver takes 200 watts without a sweat.

In Europe and especially the UK, subs are not popular. So it is no wonder the KEF B 139 is back in production. The other issue is that you need a three way design for the B139 as it has to be crossed optimally at 400 Hz and certainly by 500 Hz.

These speakers sound just fine with no sub, with plenty of bass. However, it takes a decent sized amp.

A receiver would likely struggle to power them to decent spl. That has been the move for higher sensitivity and higher F3, and requirement for a sub or two.

What’s not true? More cabinet volume (W x D x H) and bigger driver size will usually produce more bass? That’s wrong?

If you’re talking about subjective “NEED” or “WANT”, that’s a different story. That’s subjective.

 

[TLS Guy]

What’s not true? More cabinet volume (W x D x H) and bigger driver size will usually produce more bass? That’s wrong?

If you’re talking about subjective “NEED” or “WANT”, that’s a different story. That’s subjective.

No, that is not wrong, but very true. The point is that you can design a speaker that will produce a good amount of clean deep bass without a sub. That is where speaker design meets interior design.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No, that is not wrong, but very true. The point is that you can design a speaker that will produce a good amount of clean deep bass without a sub. That is where speaker design meets interior design.

Of course. Like I said, the OP can still get the amount of bass he prefers/wants with his current speaker with dual 8” woofers. Even a single 8” woofer can provide just the “right” amount of bass he wants.

 

[Kingnoob]

Depends on size of speaker (volume, W x D x H) and size of drivers. If each tower has two or four 12” woofers like the RBH SVTR or SVTRS towers that Gene owns, then it will likely produce ACTUAL REAL subwoofer bass.

The Amati Tradition tower only has 2 x 8” woofers. So it’s NOT going to produce real subwoofer bass. But if the OP feels that is all the bass he wants to hear, then that is all that matters to him.

if op has endless funds and can afford 25k towers he can buy any sub on the market.

 

[isolar8001]

I however can’t ever find a real
Job here and low pay 24 hours a week isn’t going to pay the bills. Merica is a joke, may as well find another country with real jobs??can’t afford to travel so stuck here.

Must you ruin good threads with your manbaby whining ?
What did your response have to do with the subject being discussed ?

Do you think gas station jobs (the only job you could find in 6 years) magically pay more somewhere else ?
Where you live is just like everywhere else.
You made your bed, and now you see your bed sucks...poor baby.

Find another hobby to pursue that is cheaper to participate in.
Do you like to color ?
You can get good deals on crayons and coloring books at most dollar stores.

 

[Kingnoob]

Must you ruin good threads with your manbaby whining ?
What did your response have to do with the subject being discussed ?

Do you think gas station jobs (the only job you could find in 6 years) magically pay more somewhere else ?
Where you live is just like everywhere else.
You made your bed, and now you see your bed sucks...poor baby.

Find another hobby to pursue that is cheaper to participate in.
Do you like to color ?
You can get good deals on crayons and coloring books at most dollar stores.

There’s still some decent cheap audio stuff but it’s impossible to afford anything when making nothing after bills. Maybe some headphones lmao. I was just pointing out the obvious, and a flagship sub might be worth it for these with unlimited budgets. Not that I’d bother if the towers go low enough.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

As long as you cross the sub very low (as REL recommends), the difference will likely be very subtle, as you are experiencing.

A better effect and impact would likely be had if you crossed over the subs much higher (60-100hz), employed DSP to ensure an even bass response in-room, and high passed the speakers.

And the result wouldn't necessarily be because your Sonus Faber speakers don't have enough bass to begin with, but because a competent sub or two in the right place with some DSP/EQ will give a much better and more even bass response.