Do speakers have a lower impedance before break in? BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!

[gixxerific]

(Reciever in question is a Denon 2106)

Alright got my Focal's in today they sound great, or should I say, sounded great. Only had them on for maybe a hour went to do some cranking normal LOUD levels with the previous 20 yr old pieces of **** no problems with them.

Than the receiver goes into protect mode. I let it cool down with a fan in fact for a bit. Turned it back on and it sparked heavily twice very fast. I couldn't turn it off quick enough not that it matters. I even think I saw a small flame burst. Well it's fried for sure!!!!!!

The Focal's say they are 8 ohm but putting a Multimeter on them they read a constant 4.6 ohm. Is that normal when brand new or are they just labeled wrong or am I just an idiot who needs to shoot himself in the mother****ing face?

 

[lsiberian]

Alright got my Focal's in today they sound great, or should I say, sounded great. Only had them on for maybe a hour went to do some cranking normal LOUD levels with the previous 20 yr old pieces of **** no problems with them.

Than the receiver goes into protect mode. I let it cool down with a fan in fact for a bit. Turned it back on and it sparked heavily twice very fast. I couldn't turn it off quick enough not that it matters. I even think I saw a small flame burst. Well it's fried for sure!!!!!!

The Focal's say they are 8 ohm but putting a Multimeter on them they read a constant 4.6 ohm. Is that normal when brand new or are they just labeled wrong or am I just an idiot who needs to shoot himself in the mother****ing face?

It sounds like you are using a Sony receiver. I suggest you upgrade to something else.

 

[gixxerific]

Sorry forgot to say it is\was a Denon 2106, 6 ohm reciever.

 

[markw]

Nominal impedance is not the same as resistance.

Impedance is a calculation based on frequency and a bunch of other stuff. Even though it's stated in ohms, it's is not the same as DC resistance, which is what your multimeter reads.

A reading of lower than eight ohms (resistance) is not out of line with a stated impedance of eight ohms nominal. BTW, "nominal" means "average" and it's very likey that a speakers impedance can dip quite low, particularly at lower frequencies.

How loud are you playing that thing?

 

[Highbar]

I'm not sure about your situation as even though an 8Ohm speaker will dip below 8 they don't normally run below, but I have seen a Denon's output section go due to trying to drive 4Ohm speakers at high volumes. Note it was fine at normal listening levels, it wasn't until we cranked it up a bit that it went click click red blink. I'm pretty sure that the receiver is repairable if you take it to a Denon shop, but it might just not be able to run those speakers, which Focal's are they?

Wow a quick look at the Focal site and I'm amazed. They have minimum's listed for most of their speakers also and most of them are between 3 and 3.5Ohm's while some are as low as 2.9Ohm's. I'm pretty sure that the receiver just couldn't handle them. I'd be looking to either get a receiver rated to 4Ohm's or an external amp to power those speakers.

 

[Highbar]

Delete the duplicate

 

[gixxerific]

Impedance is a calculation based on frequency and a bunch of other stuff. Even though it's stated in ohms, it's is not the same as DC resistance, which is what your multimeter reads.

A reading of lower than eight ohms (resistance) is not out of line with a stated impedance of eight ohms nominal. BTW, "nominal" means "average" and it's very likey that a speakers impedance can dip quite low, particularly at lower frequencies.

Yea I know that ohms fluctuate while playing diff freq's. But doesn't a speaker at rest normally have a ohm reading in the very near vicinity of waht is stated in the specs. All the other speakers I have do. That is how I have set up amps for car audio for years without a problem. Maybe I'm doing something wrong the the MM but I havn't had a problem yet. I hope this makes sense I'm too pissed off to think.

On another note I brought my 10-15 yr. old Onkyo up just to make sure my brand spanking new speakers weren't fried as well and they work great. I beleive that the Onky has a lower power output, wanna say 75 per channel. But it is also a 4 ohm reciver and to tell the truth it sounds better on the Onkyo. Most likely that is because they are actually gettin more power. But there was more low ens extesnion and went louder with way less volume input. Yes I also know that you can't rely on the clock position of the Vloume knob\pot.

 

[gixxerific]

How loud are you playing that thing?

oh and as stated above I didnt have it any louder than my previous speakers have seen countless times on the same reciever (according to the pot and listening). Oh yeah the previous speakers were junk (but 6ohm at the outputs) that my parents bought for me for christmas when I as a preeteen I'm now 40.

Dono

 

[MinusTheBear]

What the hell are you talking about?

Oh and thanks for the help in my time of need.

He probably hit the send button twice and the post showed up twice. It probably is just a edit of the duplicate post.

 

[markw]

oh and as stated above I didnt have it any louder than my previous speakers have seen countless times on the same reciever (according to the pot and listening). Oh yeah the previous speakers were junk (but 6ohm at the outputs) that my parents bought for me for christmas when I as a preeteen I'm now 40.

Dono

Your new speakers may be less efficient than your older speakers, thereby requiring more power for the same apparant loudness.

 

[gixxerific]

He probably hit the send button twice and the post showed up twice. It probably is just a edit of the duplicate post.

Highbar Yeah sorry about the above qoute (kinda pissed about my Denon shooting sparks out the top) I look and looked for a duplicate it finally came to me what it was but this thread won't let me delete it. I did however delete my hate thread. But not befroe it was qouted thanks Minus . Again sorry for the confusion now could we PLEASE get back on topic.

Thanks Dono

 

[gixxerific]

Your new speakers may be less efficient than your older speakers, thereby requiring more power for the same apparant loudness.

This is what I was just trying to explain to my wife guese I should have been explaining it to myself. Whoops Which Is why they sounded better, got louder on my 4 ohm onkyo, right? Before I put my foot in my mouth again, or blow something else up.

Looks like sesnititvity is 92 db.

 

[Alex2507]

my time of need.

I don't think your speakers blew up your Denon. That may not be a nice new rec'r but it is a fine rec'r. I guess maybe take it in and see what they say. Your ohm meter on a speaker is no indication of the speakers impedance. Google impedance vs. resistance and read up on all the stuff I gave up on trying to understand. I think you have a case of coincidence and bad luck rolled into one.

Hopefully you're rec'r can be fixed. I need to get an up to date rec'r myself with HDMI. Then I would have a spare. Your story frightens me. I don't listen to music all the time but ... not beig able to ...

Good luck and let us know.

 

[gixxerific]

I don't think your speakers blew up your Denon. That may not be a nice new rec'r but it is a fine rec'r. I guess maybe take it in and see what they say. Your ohm meter on a speaker is no indication of the speakers impedance. Google impedance vs. resistance and read up on all the stuff I gave up on trying to understand. I think you have a case of coincidence and bad luck rolled into one.

Hopefully you're rec'r can be fixed. I need to get an up to date rec'r myself with HDMI. Then I would have a spare. Your story frightens me. I don't listen to music all the time but ... not beig able to ...

Good luck and let us know.

I do beleive it was the speakers for some reason, hate to diasagree with you cause I do respect your opinion on here.

And yes I have been into auido for the majority of my life and I still don't understand all that mumbo jumbo.

As far as fixing it I just got it fixed about 6 month's ago from me messing with some free speaks I got and I think I shorted out some wires with the power on DOH!

Way to go Don (that's me) you dumbass quit blowing up your **** you moron. But I do have a backup,the onkyo. I should have just got a new AVR with HDMI then but I didn't want to cut into my speaker budget too bad.

Can you geuss what my next thread will be? "What AVR should I get" It will be something like that. I just want to cry.

And i do listen to music ALL the time, it is my biggest passion, next to my family of course, but hey they can't sing worth a **** so........................

 

[Alex2507]

I do respect your opinion on here.

That's a mistake.

Okay, you still have tunes and a repair shop that you are familiar with.
Get an estimate. See what's up now.
Mostly due to budget constraints, I like the Yammy 663 and the ONK 805.

 

[gixxerific]

That's a mistake.

Okay, you still have tunes and a repair shop that you are familiar with.
Get an estimate. See what's up now.
Mostly due to budget constraints, I like the Yammy 663 and the ONK 805.

I will look into those. Looks like I will getting into my subwoofer budget now for a new reciever.

 

[Highbar]

Highbar Yeah sorry about the above qoute (kinda pissed about my Denon shooting sparks out the top) I look and looked for a duplicate it finally came to me what it was but this thread won't let me delete it. I did however delete my hate thread. But not befroe it was qouted thanks Minus . Again sorry for the confusion now could we PLEASE get back on topic.

Thanks Dono

All good man. Actually my computer freaked out on me, crashed and somehow posted twice.

Anyway back on topic. Can you answer my questions in my first post? I'm guessing it was the speakers but without knowing the model that's just a guess.

Denon's are great but everything has a point of no return. Your Denon was probably putting out a lot more than the 75W your Onkyo is putting out as the lower the resistance the more power will be output. Look at some amp specs and you'll see what I mean, 4Ohm ratings are always higher than 8Ohm ratings, which is probably part of the reason it blew. The same as if you were to hook up a pair of 8Ohm speakers to your Onkyo, they would not see the full 75W probably closer to 50.

 

[gixxerific]

Anyway back on topic. Can you answer my questions in my first post? I'm guessing it was the speakers but without knowing the model that's just a guess.

Denon's are great but everything has a point of no return. Your Denon was probably putting out a lot more than the 75W your Onkyo is putting out as the lower the resistance the more power will be output. Look at some amp specs and you'll see what I mean, 4Ohm ratings are always higher than 8Ohm ratings, which is probably part of the reason it blew. The same as if you were to hook up a pair of 8Ohm speakers to your Onkyo, they would not see the full 75W probably closer to 50.

The speakers are Focal Chorus 836 V's

 

[CraigV]

Well, since no one else has said it - my condolences on the untimely passing of your receiver

 

[Loren42]

The speakers are Focal Chorus 836 V's

Type 3-way bass-reflex floorstanding loudspeaker
Drivers 3x61/2" (165mm) Polyglass woofers
61/2" (165mm) Polyglass midrange
1" (25mm) TNV Al/Mg inverted dome tweeter
Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 40Hz - 28kHz
Low frequency point (- 6dB) 33Hz
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 92dB
Nom. impedance 8 ohms
Minimum impedance (@25°C) 3 ohms @ 110Hz
Max. power handling. 250W
Power RMS 180W
Crossover frequency 250Hz / 3kHz
Dimensions (HxWxD) 453/16"x111/8"x143/4"
(1148x282x375mm)
Net weight 66lbs (30kg)

The story is in the bolded text. On the plus side, 92 dB isn't too inefficient. Nominal impedance is 8 Ω, but can be as low as 3 Ω at 110 Hz. So, your amp does have a bit of a load to drive, but not as much as it would if you were driving 4 Ω speakers.

Incidentally, measuring the DC resistance tends to be lower than the AC resistance seen by the amp and rated by the manufacture. Typically, an 8 Ω woofer will read about 6 Ω on a meter, but it will vary quite a bit depending on the frequency applied, the enclosure, and the crossover network.

As for the root cause of your failure, it may be true that your new speakers "helped" your amp's demise along. However, unless there is something badly wrong with your new speakers, I think that may not be the sole reason or even a major contributor.

If the amp was repaired not long ago, that may be a factor. Your shop may be able to help sort that out.

As for a new receiver, well, if its primary role is music and not home theater, then maybe you might consider something tailored toward stereo.

Another thought would be to keep your Denon, disable the output section (or repair) and buy a power amp such as a Carver or something with a robust output that will loaf along under the load and volume you wish to use it. Investing in a good power amp makes upgrading to a better preamp in the future a little easier on the wallet because you can easily use either receiver you have now as a preamp.