DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[MinusTheBear]

Ditto, but with respect to the amps, consider the following. When AV123 has had bad electronic products, people send them back not to be repaired but replaced. 123 to my knowledge doesn't repair them (in the case of the MFW amps it looks like they held on to the entire defective unit and just replaced the amp module) and doesn't send them back to China. They get new and improved replacements from overseas. Maybe their account is credited. Maybe it's not. Judging by some of the garage sales he's had and other comments regarding defective amps, it seems that AV123 stockpiles them in the warehouse or at chez Shifty where they can be resold at a later date. As to what's happening here with this special sale, I guess people will have to rely upon the integrity and MLS's word.

Depending how many were manufactured in the intial run, it could be very possible they have stockpile of some older units. We all know finding the culprit and coming up with a fix costs money. There are some well established and respected players already in the market selling tube and solid state headphone amps at prices very competitive (if not cheaper) than the x-head. I can't see demand for these being high nor selling like hotcakes.

 

[Chu Gai]

ML, I think we've all just had a misunderstanding about things.

MinusTheBear, I'm just guessing he's looking to dump inventory and raise some much needed cash. In a way, that's kind of funny given his statements back in early '08 where he strongly suggested he and his family were had a significant net worth. Too bad if that was the case, it couldn't have been used to have promptly pay people back. Well, at least '09 showed they learned from their mistakes.

 

[MinusTheBear]

ML, I think we've all just had a misunderstanding about things.

MinusTheBear, I'm just guessing he's looking to dump inventory and raise some much needed cash. In a way, that's kind of funny given his statements back in early '08 where he strongly suggested he and his family were had a significant net worth. Too bad if that was the case, it couldn't have been used to have promptly pay people back. Well, at least '09 showed they learned from their mistakes.

If that is the case then there should be no reason for LS6/LS9 pre-paids to still be waiting for their products. Usually companies do not have drastic staff reductions if things are on the up and up.

 

[Chu Gai]

If that is the case then there should be no reason for LS6/LS9 pre-paids to still be waiting for their products. Usually companies do not have drastic staff reductions if things are on the up and up.

Indeed, if that were the case. There almost has to be a Schifter translator for when he says anything. It may well be that taking the negative of what he says yields a more realistic interpretation that isn't founded on wishful thinking. His writing are filled with a host of inconsistencies and are at odds with how the company seems to be doing.

 

[JazzySmooth]

Another satisfied customer

You actually got speakers? Incredible. I once had a pair on order, until that or was (apparently) unilaterally canceled anyhow when I failed to respond within a week to some mass Emailing back in June of this year, after hearing zilch for a year and a half. Very clever to hide that in the last paragraph of a mass Email entitled "order information" and then talking about delivery issues instead of PENDING ORDER CANCELLATION. Oh well.

A personalized message at least acknowledging my long-pending order might have been nice at some point, or possibly some sort of "Order Status Update" periodically ... But no. No "We're behind, would you like to substitute with some B-Stock we have on hard, or this other finish"? No "Would you like to get the LS6 instead"? Nothing like that. No letter in the mail. No "Here's the timetable". Nope. Nothing WHATSOEVER for more than a YEAR other than a blanket [to paraphrase] "Sorry for over-promising and under-delivering. Hope you checked your Email and got our message this week because we're bailing out and jacking up the price (even though, as a company subject to the UCC and UETA, we have no right to do so and hope you don't sue us because we're being nice and 'splitting the difference' ... he he he)."

Good to hear at least SOMEONE got their speakers. I'm pretty sure I could have carved mine with a razor blade from a solid block of wood faster than AV123 has delivered (or, rather, failed to deliver and ultimately canceled orders instead).

I suppose I should call to use my credit that I received for a couple hundred feet of speaker cables that were never delivered two years ago ... If they still have a record of it. (Fat chance). I had planned to apply it to the Ebony LS9s whose arrival, at this point, seems less likely than manna from heaven.

OK. I feel better now. Done venting. I suppose this means my "true believer" status is officially dead and buried, as perhaps it probably should have been long, long ago. Hope your speakers, at least, are everything they're cracked up to be.

http://forums.av123.com/showpost.php?p=745324&postcount=23

 

[Chu Gai]

Sounds like he thankfully didn't prepay for the honor although he's still owed money. Unbelievable that Shifty turns owed cash refunds into store credit. Apart from the ethical issues, I can't help but think this is illegal. Judging by what I've been reading I'm thinking Shifty's got a whole bunch of cabinets plagued with defective veneer whose designation as B-stock might be frightfully kind. Now we'll see if the thread vanishes or it gets one of his personalized, damage control, let's talk on the phone responses.

 

[gonk]

Ouch. It sounds like he had (has) credit or a "gift certificate" already under his name that was slated for use on the LS9's.

 

[Chu Gai]

As they say on the farm, useless like tits on a bull.

 

[majorloser]

As they say on the farm, useless like tits on a bull.

I always heard "...on a boar hog."

 

[jvgillow]

More shoddy MFW quality

So here is how the (what should have been) simple driver replacement went. For those that weren't aware, I purchased two MFWs a few weeks back and one of the drivers was most likely damaged in shipping and knocked out of alignment. This caused the driver to hit/rub and generally sound like crap. I don't fault AV123 for this at all. They were very helpful and immediately sent out a new driver...even though it was most likely due to rough handling in shipping and not their fault. I continued to use my other good sub and ran the damaged sub at very low gains (no more than 1/4 turn) and limped along while I waited for the new driver.

New driver arrived today and I'm excited to finally hear what two healthy MFWs will sound like. Mr. Schifter was kind enough to ensure the leads were soldered in so that all I would have to do is plug and play. Sweet! I go to work on replacing the driver.

In short, my A stock sub must have been swapped with a B stock. I honestly didn't look this sub over too closely when I first got it because the crappy driver was my main focus and after it was confirmed it was bad, the sub just sat in a dark corner out of sight, out of mind. Looking closer now, it is pretty beat to hell. One of the screws (head) on the face place was stripped before I even touched it. With a larger allen I was finally able to get it out. Not a good start on the driver replacement. Start removing the screws holding the driver in place and two of those screws were stripped from trying to tighten the driver too much by the installer (or previous owner?). Pull the driver out and see that the driver had been screwed in at two different places, meaning double the screw holes. Those screw holes that weren't used were all uneven and raised up and the sealant tape that should have gone all the way around the driver only covered 3/4 at best. The hole that was cut for the driver is slightly too large which causes the screws on one side not to get enough "bite" and is (probably) why the screws were stripped and rotated and has all the extra holes. Speaking of holes, it doesn't seem that any of the holes for the screws were pre drilled as the back of all the holes was gouged out and breaking from the back. I filled all of the holes with putty and smoothed everything out so that when I put in the new driver it would at least be flush.

The leads running from the driver to the amp are simple plugs and were already soldered in place for me. Greatly appreciated and should have made the job much easier. Problem is the lead coming from the amp isn't long enough to come through the hole in the front! If the wires were 2" longer, people (I) wouldn't have to remove the amp that my as well be welded in place just to plug it in, not to mention the damage the amp does while popping out.

So the holes for the driver are sealed, the surround on the driver is sealed and I'm ready to feed the leads back to the amp and screw the driver down and put the faceplate back on. Get it all in and luckily the new sealed holes seem to get a good bite and I left it better than I found it. Move to the back, start removing the screws from the amp (hadn't pulled it off at that point yet) and realize those screws are all jacked up as well. None of them go straight down. Some angle left, some angle right, one is stripped from overtightening and another has a stripped head. Fight the last screw with the stripped head and finally get that off and then run here to figure out if anything else is needed to remove the dang thing (thanks again GreyBeard).

Ok good, everything is now plugged back in and all looks well, accept the amp won't go back in flush like it initially was and I'm not about to take a hammer to it, even a rubber mallet. It was sealed and I called it good. Turned the good sub off so I could just hear this one. Plug it in w/o the cheater at first just out of curiosity to see if the hum magically went away (interconnect not hooked up at this point). Surprisingly no hum, just an odd (loud) static sound. Played with the gain to see if static would go up/down and no change. Good..so I thought. Hooked up the interconnect (nothing else running) and still no hum. Good...so I thought. Turned on the AVR and still nothing from the sub accept for the static, adjusting gain does nothing. Hook the interconnect into the other sub that I know has been working and it fires right up. Go back to the bad sub with new driver and again nothing but static. Green light is on but nobody is home. AAAAAaaaaahhhh!

At least I have one good sub because if both were bad I would be livid. Mark and Kyle are amazingly nice people but this is really getting frustrating at this point. Should I just box the whole stinking sub back up with both drivers and ship it back to you guys?? I don't want this to seem like I'm bashing AV123, I'm not. Their customer service has been top notch. The one MFW that is working is great. This sub that has been problems from the start, and upon closer inspection is all beat up, is trying my patience however.

Posted on forums.av123.com just about an hour ago.

 

[cschang]

I wonder if he is interested in checking the screws on his "good" sub.

 

[Chu Gai]

I'm sure he doesn't know that's what A-stock looks like Here's the link to SilverBullet's post: http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=42382 I see he's at an AFB. I'll bet the military will soon be treating cases of Schifter Shock Syndrome. Now, I have to wonder, did the box the sub came in say, "Handcrafted with pride and passion in Cali-Colombia"?

 

[MinusTheBear]

I feel sorry for gentleman. In Silverbullets previous thread (when he first received his dual subs) asking him to double check the subwoofer for any stripped screws should have been the first thing customer service should have asked him. I mentioned this previously in this thread. It is mind boggling quite frankly. Now the first step to fixing this sub should have been more simple like fixing the stripped screws with the original driver in place (without removing the amp) to see if that would solve his "flutter/flapping" problem before doing anything more drastic and difficult for the customer to fix. But unfortunetly it does not look like customer service even mentioned this. He comes off as shocked and I don't blame him.

I also can't blame him for damaging the veneer when removing the amp. When the amp is to big to fit into the enclosure and needs to be hammered in and pulled out with such force, veneer does not take likely to that. He deserves a brand new sub in my opinion.

 

[droht]

I have trouble feeling sorry for any new folks embroiled in av123 issues. Too many of them are posting and obviously seeing all the posts about all of the issues, and going ahead and ordering because of what they might get for their money. At this point the buyers need to bear the responsibility for their decisions. That's not to say av123 shouldn't do what's right; they should, but let's be realistic.

I suppose some folks may still be buying stuff with no prior knowledge of the broader landscape, but I can't imagine that is a very high percentage.

 

[Matt34]

I have trouble feeling sorry for any new folks embroiled in av123 issues. Too many of them are posting and obviously seeing all the posts about all of the issues, and going ahead and ordering because of what they might get for their money. At this point the buyers need to bear the responsibility for their decisions. That's not to say av123 shouldn't do what's right; they should, but let's be realistic.

I suppose some folks may still be buying stuff with no prior knowledge of the broader landscape, but I can't imagine that is a very high percentage.

I still see AV123 getting recommended by a number of people over at AVSforums....most of them with join dates of 2009. Then there are still the ones that, because they like there av123 products, will defend that company tooth and nail when someone brings to light their own issue(s).

 

[stevo238]

I think like most folks, we're all looking for the deal of the century. That's what most people see when they stumble upon AV123. For the ones that read the hype and don't research, I have to agree with Droht that you get what you deserve. For the others that do research, and still buy, my guess is that they think it will never happen to me.

 

[Chu Gai]

I think like most folks, we're all looking for the deal of the century. That's what most people see when they stumble upon AV123. For the ones that read the hype and don't research, I have to agree with Droht that you get what you deserve. For the others that do research, and still buy, my guess is that they think it will never happen to me.

Yup, or they rationalize it away saying things like,

I can't expect much for that price
Well, I'm not going to be close enough to see the veneer or the damage caused by the amp that's not the same size as the old one so it damages the veneer
Well, s/h is tough on products rather than thinking maybe those putzes in Colorado didn't engineer the packaging or the product correctly
I've got no problem getting new screws
I just used a cheater plug
Where else can you speak to the President of a company and have him resolve this or that
He's such a generous man. Look what he did for the people who've been affiliated with the military.

A humbly here and big man hug there and the next thing you know the money's in his pocket and not yours.

 

[Chu Gai]

Now, I don't begrudge people owning things

After all, if you earned the money legitimately by all means spend it how you want. However, in light of the enormous financial difficulties facing AV123, sometimes its informative to take a look at where the monies went. Well, at least some of the monies. To that end, over at Rennteam Schifter posted this on 3/8/06. Living beyond his means? You decide.

Hello...

I'm new here as well, and having just taken delivery of a Cayman S, I felt I should look for a good forum to join. I found all of you...

My Cayman S looks like this...

Basalt Black

Black Sports Seats

Bi Xenon

Black Leather

Heated Seats (needed those today as we are snowing here)

19" Carrera Classic Wheels w/ Colour Crest, etc.

TPMS

Bose

I have to say that after 700 + miles I really think I made a fine decision. I'm so pleased (thus far) with the balance of this car, and how I feel piloting her.

I live in America (Boulder, Colorado) roughly 15 ~ 18 weeks per year, with the rest of the time being split between my other homes in PanYu City, (Guangzhou) China and Khabarovsk, (Far East) Russia.

I have a nice array of cars in each place, and the interesting thing is how climate has effected each decision.

Here in Colorado I have:

2005 Cadillac Escalade ESV

2005 Audi A8L

2005 MBZ SLK350 (AMG package)

In China I have:

2004 Hyundai Sonata Gold

2005 Cadillac CTS (3.6 Litre) --- American built, BTW

In Khabarovsk I have:

2001 Lexus Harrier (our RX300)

and waiting a new order 2006 Lexus GX 470 from Japan


I have to say that the Porsche has already won my heart and soul... I love driving this car, and that feeling of utter control and balance really make me feel so "right" in this car.

The one thing I'm wondering the most is if I made an error in not ordering PASM... Not sure if I made a mistake here or not.

I'm in the audio business and thus far I would have to say that the Bose System is adequate, but not really "right on"...

Oh well... Just wanted to introduce myself and get acquainted a bit...

Thanks so much...

All the best...

mls

Now, when were those Khabarovsk raffles for the needy children in desperate need of medical supplies, food, and clothing?

 

[stevo238]

'Before destruction is pride, and before stumbling, a haughty spirit'

I wonder if MLS has learned anything about himself these last couple of years. Business problems and a serious illness would have a way of humbling any one of us. I hope he means it when he signs off with humbly now.

 

[Chu Gai]

I want to see a doctor's note before I buy into the serious illness thing.