I think one of the reasons so much stuff passed for so long, is that a lot of the speakers were very good values, and sound quite good. I know there were lots of QC issues and veneer problems, especially as relationships with suppliers started to sour - but I have a bunch of AV123 stuff that performs quite well at it's price point. (I too use them with X-LS's with my video editing system).
I did buy all my stuff on sale, B-Stock or Used - but it is still performing quite well. Subwoofers and amps are another matter I have 1 MFW that I got for $299 that is performing perfectly, and 3 ULW-10's that all had the amp die. Those were a nightmare to get originally with insulting lies about delivery issues going on for months - I'm currently waiting on my final Parts-Express amp, so it still isn't finished. At least, they have sent out the new amp, even though they banned me over there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwA4jt-JYPE
Also I generally only read the threads I was interested in - so I was unaware of many of the big problems and lies that were spread through a lot of the complaint threads. I generally viewed Mark's lies as small "white lies", and it was worth dealing with them for a decent value - obviously the lies were far worse in scope and more widespread than I could ever have imagined.
It still seems odd to me, if someone was looking to rip people off in the audio world, that the snake oil path is a better way to maximize profits. And most people generally are trustworthy, I'd rather assume people are good and be proven wrong on rare occasions than view everyone with distrust. Although, this whole thing has definitely shaken my faith in people.
I'd also venture that Larry D is probably unaware of a lot of this stuff going on, much like the monk was. I've always found Larry to be kind and helpful on several forums.
I don't think I personally would have looked into a lot of this, if the Colorado AG hadn't called me. If you're not looking to find this info out, it is very easy to miss it.
Jim C
I sincerely doubt that Larry D or anyone else that has been participating regularly and frequenting regularly at any of the major audio forums and at av123 for any length of time on a regular basis is completely unaware of what has been happening. People communicate,they talk,e-mail,sms,go in chat rooms,visit in person. As far as any regulars there now,they just don't want to know or get involved.
Sure,Kyle and others over there have been real good at hiding things,and keeping it off the forum,they have to,
but come on,not know something is wrong ? For anyone who has been a regular there for any reasonable length of time, how can they not know.How could they not seen the post counts decrease in every forum over there? How could they not see having all kinds of post removed or deleted? How could they not see having so many of the old time regulars no longer posting or being banned left and right.How could they not wonder why all of the questions that have been asked about all of this go completely unanswered so dramatically over the last 2 years and
not even wonder what the SamHell is going on ? This is too far fetched to believe even for me,and I was a big supporter and supposedly a friend.So IMHO no matter how much of the kool aid you have drunk,or how much of a friend you thought you were,to not question at least some of this or what is/has happening is rather anemic.I know first hand It's a real B**** to wake up one day and realize just how much you have been lied to about everything,and then see with unclouded eyes what others think and feel about all of it,but to not do so is a tragedy in it's own right. While it may make you more cynical in your approach to others,that is also a good thing in todays world. It's a wake up call for folks,in that we won't blindly follow what those around us think and say.It will make us get involved and really look at those we do business with. Why,simple:
A conscientious informed consumer is really a manufacturers worst nightmare. BTW,they did have some good products,they had to,otherwise they would have never been able to pull off what they have for so long.It's a real shame that those who have purchased large amounts of product from them have had to see their value diminish and that they weren't such good value as what they were led to believe
with all things considered.
Denial or self delusional reasoning is what folks here told me when I had my head up my back side for so long,and admittedly for me it was.It's far easier to dismiss all the things being said as lies told by someone else for their own dubious reasons,than it is to believe those you consider honest and a friend to be the one being dishonest and taking advantage of your "good nature".Unfortunately this is what unscrupulous people do. However,once I pulled my head out of my butt, I immediately realized that the BS lies fed me over there for so long did indeed reek,and began delousing myself as quickly as I could.If folks like yourself continue to accept lies,no matter how small they think they really are,then the truth becomes even more harder to accept when forced to be faced with it.
It's a very hard thing to do to go against wanting
not to to believe in a person or company with all of the good propaganda that had been broadcast about them by folks who had been brainwashed after they were indoctrinated into their cult.They are/were very good at it and utilized all of the good members or "family" on their forum to accomplish this.Please understand while I am not saying you are like this,it was/is this way for many. I also know there are and will always be some who could care less about a forum or company and never wanted anything to do with either,to some in their way of thinking they could care less even if it was Hitler himself was having a Berlin fire sale on his audio equipment,that they would continue purchasing from him still,since they only care about saving a few bucks,not on who's backs the equipment was made or acquired.Thinking along those lines,I do wonder just how many conscientious people would have still spent their money with them if they had known all of what was really under the Kimono?
Mac
