DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

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gonk

gonk

Full Audioholic
The latest sales email is curious - we've known they've talked about domestically-built drivers for a while and there was a specific board in the July 2009 amps that was made in the US, but the rest of the amp was made in China. Unless they've started getting the entire amp from a US manufacturing partner, it would seem inaccurate to say that the amp is US-made just because they have one piece that is made here.

It also makes me wonder something else: if AV123 has committed to staying with their policy of doing final MFW assembly locally, what happens when UniAudio quits shipping them cabinets? I can't see the factory wanting to keep doing that long-term, even without considering what existing debt may complicate business arrangements going forward. Who will they hire locally to build MFW cabinets for a price anywhere near their current rate? If you resume trying to sell the MFW15 at a price around $600 or $700, you're going to surrender the main advantage the sub has over a lot of its competitors: a super-cheap price. It makes me suspect that the MFW15 will end up suffering the same fate as some other popular AV123 products (Strata Mini, X-LS, etc.): it will simply disappear from their site one day, possibly right after a last big sale, and be discontinued without warning.

I can't see them hitting the same price points and undermining the "competitive going rate" with production in NA - which seems to be their method of attracting a new customer base. Unless it is to offer a MFW for $399 and add $200 dollars for shipping ;) Their new customer base seems to be attracted only by the purchase price even if it comes at the sacrfice of quality issues and warranty problems/concerns.
It would seem to make this more difficult, but as long as the sales volume isn't too great and they still have Colombian-built cabinets on hand, there is one benefit: they can make their existing staff do the assembly (in addition to other duties) for the salary they're already being paid rather than pay somebody else (or find somebody else to promise a possible payment to and then renege on). As a long-term solution, it seems like a dreadful idea. As a short-term means of staying in business a couple extra months, it isn't completely insane - merely a dubious outward example of long-term management problems that continue to be addressed with nothing but sleight of hand.

What about the X-statik? Where these mostly made in Columbia?
The X-Statik and X-Voce have been built exclusively and entirely in Colombia, with no domestic assembly processes involved. I have no idea what is currently happening with production of these two speakers - indications online are that UniAudio's output and active staff has scaled back for some time now, so I don't know when they last got a new shipment of those speakers. It doesn't appear that UniAudio has built anything other than X-Statiks, X-Voce's, X-Omni's, and MFW-15 cabinets for at least a year.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I can't see them hitting the same price points and undermining the "competitive going rate" with production in NA - which seems to be their method of attracting a new customer base. Unless it is to offer a MFW for $399 and add $200 dollars for shipping ;) Their new customer base seems to be attracted only by the purchase price even if it comes at the sacrfice of quality issues and warranty problems/concerns. What about the X-statik? Where these mostly made in Columbia?
IMO, due to the sundry problems with the MFW's after they resumed shipping - hum, miswiring, veneer issues, wood chips, bum drivers, missing screws, gasket issues, and all that - they've found themselves locked into that $400 more or less price point, just as you said. There's absolutely no margin left to generate anything resembling profits especially when you consider that any warranty issue has disastrous effects. Essentially, people who are in this business are laughing their a$$es off. I did manage to come across a price sheet for goods made in Colombia (FOB) that's about a year old and am debating whether to go public with it.

A person contacted me after having spoken to Kyle over at AV451 (for that I have Commandant Chase to thank for making my email address public at his venerable website - lol - unintended consequences!) and was informed that the entire amp - board and everything else - is now made in the USA. The only thing made elsewhere is the cabinet which they are getting in an unfinished state and then getting it sprayed or whatever domestically. Those cabinets came from Cali and he stated that shortly they will have cabinets made in the USA. I don't see the reasoning for that being to offer a wholly made USA product though. Rather, it's because Shifty is terminating business and looking to stick Santiago with a boatload of money owed. I'm sure that money will find its way through the Panama Canal though :D

I don't think we'll be seeing X speakers any time soon. The thing is, will he be able to replace them with something else that's viable. I wouldn't count on it although he may get into the rebadged White Van model and see if he can snow people that way.
 
Stereodude

Stereodude

Senior Audioholic
A person contacted me after having spoken to Kyle over at AV451 ... and was informed that the entire amp - board and everything else - is now made in the USA. The only thing made elsewhere is the cabinet which they are getting in an unfinished state and then getting it sprayed or whatever domestically. Those cabinets came from Cali and he stated that shortly they will have cabinets made in the USA. I don't see the reasoning for that being to offer a wholly made USA product though.
You have to work from the assumption that VA321 is telling the truth for that to have any significance though. ;)
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
You have to work from the assumption that VA321 is telling the truth for that to have any significance though. ;)
Ain't that the truth, though. I hope to have some sort of independent verification, or not as the case may be, later. I still can't get over that Kyle is still working there.
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
merely a dubious outward example of long-term management problems that continue to be addressed with nothing but sleight of hand.
You just summed up 123 in a single sentence. From an outside perspective the companies actions certainly seem very myopic caught up in the moment of hype with little to no focus on a strategic long term plan.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
You just summed up 123 in a single sentence. From an outside perspective the companies actions certainly seem very myopic caught up in the moment of hype with little to no focus on a strategic long term plan.
Yup. And this is the guy who talks how he's been in the business for 40 years. But you know...

His mother once tried to trade him in a supermarket for a jar of Gefilte fish. When he talks to himself, he often loses interest...and walks away. He can speak fourteen foreign languages...at the first grade level. He can only give 100%...the other 10% he gives to the children. He is, the most interesting man in the world. "I don't always go to the Boulder County Jail, but when I do someone bails me out. Keep trying to reach me, my friends."
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Did mark schifter send you a bum check?

I know there are some of you out there who've looked to get back the money you paid to Mark Schifter. For example, if you were suckered into coming up with $6,000 for the privalege of being an RSL-II beta tester, you know by now that the RSL-II that you thought you were going to get is never going to happen. The compelling reason you all got taken in by this was the promise that Arnie Nudell was going to be involved. Well, as you all know, and if not you do now, Arnie Nudell bailed a couple of years ago and of course, that SOB Schifter went mum on the details. Hence, if there should ever be a speaker called an RSL-II it'll no more be one than changing the body on a Chevy Cavalier makes in a Cadillac Cimarron. It'd be a sham.

But I know a few of you, like the screen name Jacka$$ from AV451, b!tched to Schifter and he sent them checks that bounced. You might've redeposited it and it bounced again. Or maybe he sent you a second or third check and those also bounced. Well unless I'm wrong, it turns out that you just might be able to do something about that even though it's been a couple of years later.

Consider the following Colorado Statute.

CRS 13-80-103.5. General limitation of actions - six years.
(1) The following actions shall be commenced within six years after the cause of action accrues, and not thereafter:
(a) All actions to recover a liquidated debt or an unliquidated, determinable amount of money due to the person bringing the action, all actions for the enforcement of rights set forth in any instrument securing the payment of or evidencing any debt, and all actions of replevin to recover the possession of personal property encumbered under any instrument securing any debt; except that actions to recover pursuant to CRS 38-35-124.5 (3) shall be commenced within one year;
(b) All actions for arrears of rent;
(c) All actions brought under CRS 13-21-109, except actions brought under CRS 13-21-109 (2);
(d) All actions by the public employees' retirement association to collect unpaid contributions from employers for persons who are not members or inactive members at the time the association first notifies an employer of its claim for unpaid contributions. This paragraph (d) shall apply to causes of action as provided in CRS 24-51-402(2)
(e) All actions brought for restitution and civil penalties pursuant to CRS 26-4-1104.​
Now, that means you've still got time to get you money back. There's a lot more that can be found here: http://www.gustafsonlaw.com/Debt-Statutes_Limitations.htm#Debt-SL-2

Also, consider the following from the same website:
Many businesses simply deposit an NSF check again in their own account. The creditor's bank will likely process the check through normal banking channels a second time, but no more. That procedure is convenient, but perhaps not the most effective remedy. Time is lost if the check is again returned NSF, and creditor's bank may have a service fee for the charge backs.

Debtor's bank may possibly solve the NSF check problem. Rather than re-deposit, the first step to collecting an NSF check is to contact the bookkeeping department of debtor's bank - the address and phone number are frequently printed in the bottom right corner of the check. If there are sufficient funds in the debtor's account to clear the check, it may be prudent to drive to debtor's bank and cash the check on the spot. Problem solved, particularly if the check is for a large amount or the creditor is in need of the cash flow. Additionally, this precludes another check slipping in depleting the account balance to the point where creditor's check will not clear.

However, production at debtor's bank may be impractical if the bank is out of town or the check amount is small. Also, there may not be sufficient funds in the account to clear the check at the time of creditor's phone call. After talking with bookkeeping, ask to speak to the collection teller - all banks have one. Obtain the collection teller's name, and inquire of 1.) the cost to submit a check for collection and 2.) how long the check will be held. Some banks provide collection service at no cost, others charge for the service. Some banks will hold the checks only 2 or 3 days, others will hold for extended periods of time. Each morning before commencement of business, the collection teller will check the debtor's account to determine whether sufficient funds are on deposit to clear the submitted check. If so, the NSF check will be paid before any other business of the day and the bank's payment will be mailed to the creditor. As with production at debtor's bank, this is an effective remedy to solve the problem.
Now, I'm not sure how this applies to a check that you may still have that's a couple of years old, but you can make a phone call to the bank that the check was drawn on and speak to the COLLECTION TELLER. Take it from there.

The above, was taken from here: http://www.gustafsonlaw.com/Debt-NSF_Checks.htm where you'll note that if he doesn't have the funds you'll be entitled to possible treble damages as well as other costs such as fees you had to absorb including reasonable legal fees.

Also note that since he sent you a bum check for more than $500 the MOFO just committed a Class 6 Felony. That's prosecutable folks so contact someone at the Longmont Police Department and tell your story. Their number is (303) 651-8555 so give a call. If he sent you a bum check for less than $500 then it's a misdemeanor and that's prosecutable too. Either way conviction means mandatory restitution in addition to any penalties he may incur. Now that restitution may mean payments and that's fine. If he doesn't pay or misses a payment, he can have more severe penalties imposed on him.

Now, if you guys know where this Jacka$$ is, give him a heads up on this. If you guys know anyone who has received a bad check let them know about this. Heck, make it a public service announcement. Title it something like, 'Did MLS send you a bad check?' Help get the word out and do what you can to help your fellow audiophile. He didn't deserve this. His wife didn't deserve this. His family didn't deserve this.
 
E

Eddie Horton

Junior Audioholic
Did he make a plea at the arraignment, and if so, what was it?
 
E

Eddie Horton

Junior Audioholic
Thanks. I remember reading that, now. There's a lot of info to keep up with in this thread, and some of it just slips through the old cracks in the brain.
 
T2T

T2T

Senior Audioholic
I'd like to dedicate the lyrics to Tom Waits' "What's he Building?" to ol' Shifty (I mean TADG):

What's he building in there?
What the hell is he building In there?
He has subscriptions to those
Magazines... He never
Waves when he goes by
He's hiding something from
The rest of us... He's all
To himself... I think I know
Why... He took down the
Tire swing from the Peppertree
He has no children of his
Own you see... He has no dog
And he has no friends and
His lawn is dying... and
What about all those packages
He sends. What's he building in there?
With that hook light
On the stairs. What's he building
In there... I'll tell you one thing
He's not building a playhouse for
The children what's he building
In there?

Now what's that sound from under the door?
He's pounding nails into a
Hardwood floor... and I
Swear to god I heard someone
Moaning low... and I keep
Seeing the blue light of a
T.V. show...
He has a router
And a table saw... and you
Won't believe what Mr. Sticha saw
There's poison underneath the sink
Of course... But there's also
Enough formaldehyde to choke
A horse... What's he building
In there. What the hell is he
Building in there? I heard he
Has an ex-wife in some place
Called Mayors Income, Tennessee
And he used to have a
consulting business in Indonesia...
but what is he building in there?
What the hell is building in there?

He has no friends
But he gets a lot of mail
I'll bet he spent a little
Time in jail...
I heard he was up on the
Roof last night
Signaling with a flashlight
And what's that tune he's
Always whistling...
What's he building in there?
What's he building in there?

We have a right to know...
 
T

thenatinator

Junior Audioholic
No more schifty on the about us page

The company has removed all references from schifty from the about us page on their website. I'd read it a couple of weeks ago wondering if they would edit it. Gone are any mention of the company being founded by schifter or words praising him.
Soon he'll be a demolished man.
 
C

cschang

Audioholic Chief
I'm sure Schifty knows that associated his name with his company is not good for the company right now. Or maybe he is trying save the company by putting ownership in someone else's name?
 
M

mhawker

Audioholic
Not sure if there is some sort of damage control (e-shredding) going on or not, but if you look up all the posts by MLS (i.e. "find all posts" under screen name), the oldest one that comes up is:

10/09



But if you search on MLS (search function- find posts by "MLS"), you can find posts back further:

6/08

 
T

thenatinator

Junior Audioholic
Not sure if there is some sort of damage control (e-shredding) going on or not, but if you look up all the posts by MLS (i.e. "find all posts" under screen name), the oldest one that comes up is:

10/09



But if you search on MLS (search function- find posts by "MLS"), you can find posts back further:

6/08

Might be related...... But I think it's a software update or a config change.
I did a search of the member list based on the number of posts and then did a list all posts by the second highest posting user. Displayed the same number 25 pages, 20 posts per page.
 
T

thenatinator

Junior Audioholic
Might be related...... But I think it's a software update or a config change.
I did a search of the member list based on the number of posts and then did a list all posts by the second highest posting user. Displayed the same number 25 pages, 20 posts per page.
http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=156449
also this is an interesting read... to my knowledge av123 doesn't have a robots.txt file on av123.con or forums.av123.com...
 
T

thenatinator

Junior Audioholic
Not sure if there is some sort of damage control (e-shredding) going on or not, but if you look up all the posts by MLS (i.e. "find all posts" under screen name), the oldest one that comes up is:

10/09



But if you search on MLS (search function- find posts by "MLS"), you can find posts back further:

6/08

Also it would look really bad if they are actively conspiring to conceal this information...
I wonder if anyone has considered charging them under rico. My understanding is this can be used in civil cases as well. i think in this case one might be able to prove that av123 as a company conspired to defraud costumers.

I think there is a real question on where marks involvement ends here and how involved other members where in the operation of av123.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Could be and if they did start shredding information that wouldn't be nice. But I think what you're actually seeing is that the forum software is set up such that it limits the number of pages that come up under a search. After all, he's got over 18,000 posts there!

I don't know if you could do a Rico Act thing on them, but when you go back in time and reread a lot of the explanations and excuses they're pretty funny in hindsight. I'm of the mindset is that enough people complain to the BBB (yeah, I know who they represent :D), the AG's consumer protection departments, then maybe this will provide enough impetus for the CO Secretary of State to review their incorporation and revoke their ability to legally run a business in that state.

Hope you're reading all this Mark. You shouldn't have messed with all these people because you're flat out of excuses and that whole 'I take responsibility' line isn't going to win you any more friends. Right now, the legal system is going to ensure you take responsibility. I'll be looking forward to seeing a foreclosure sign eventually. Humbly bumbly and big old man hugs coming your way.

BFF

xoxoxo

Chu
 
Stereodude

Stereodude

Senior Audioholic
His mother once tried to trade him in a supermarket for a jar of Gefilte fish. When he talks to himself, he often loses interest...and walks away. He can speak fourteen foreign languages...at the first grade level. He can only give 100%...the other 10% he gives to the children. He is, the most interesting man in the world. "I don't always go to the Boulder County Jail, but when I do someone bails me out. Keep trying to reach me, my friends."
Now this is funny... I just want to know if he drinks dos equis. :p
 
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