Do Burned CDs Have a Short Life Span?

[ruadmaa]

I read the below article on one of the news sites and find it perfectly chilling.

Optical discs may not be your best bet for storing digital media long term, expert says John Blau, IDG News Service
Tuesday, January 10, 2006

Opinions vary on how to preserve data on digital storage media, such as optical CDs and DVDs. Kurt Gerecke, a physicist and storage expert at IBM Deutschland, has his own view: If you want to avoid having to burn new CDs every few years, use magnetic tapes to store all your pictures, videos and songs for a lifetime.
Unlike pressed original CDs, burned CDs have a relatively short life span of between two to five years, depending on the quality of the CD," Gerecke says. "There are a few things you can do to extend the life of a burned CD, like keeping the disc in a cool, dark space, but not a whole lot more."
The problem is material degradation. Optical discs commonly used for burning, such as CD-R and CD-RW, have a recording surface consisting of a layer of dye that can be modified by heat to store data. The degradation process can result in the data "shifting" on the surface and thus becoming unreadable to the laser beam.
"Many of the cheap burnable CDs available at discount stores have a life span of around two years," Gerecke says. "Some of the better-quality discs offer a longer life span, of a maximum of five years."
Distinguishing high-quality burnable CDs from low-quality discs is difficult, he says, because few vendors use life span as a selling point.

 

[gnagel]

I wonder if that short life span applies even if the discs are not being used. I have hundreds of discs in storage that are used exclusively for backing up data. I'm hoping that these discs don't degrade within just a few years.

 

[claudermilk]

That article has been making the rounds of the photo fora the last week or so (you want to see guys paranoid about longevity of storage media? Look at a digital photographer). I have disks well over the maximum age the article listed that work no problem. Example: 30+ cheapie CD's with 10 hours or so of MP3's each I burned over 3 years ago for my car. They have lived & been used a lot exclusively in the car--not the friendliest environment--and except for a couple of scratched tracks they all still work perfectly. I would take that article with a big grain of salt. I am coming to the opinion the 'net is generating a lot of Chicken Littles who make mountains out of molehills based on some unsubstantiated postings.

 

[ruadmaa]

Cd Data Longevity

I wonder if that short life span applies even if the discs are not being used. I have hundreds of discs in storage that are used exclusively for backing up data. I'm hoping that these discs don't degrade within just a few years.

According to the article ALL CDs/DVDs that are burned are subject to degradation. This would not matter whatsoever if the disk were used or stored. Archival storage has long been a problem. Even motion picture film that was thought to be safe (i.e. safety base film) has started to rot.

I had personally thought that optical storage was permanent. The professionally made disks have an infinitely longer lifespan than the home made burned disks.

 

[jake51s]

Yamaha makes a recordable CD that is supposed to last 100 years.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Similar arguments were made for LP's and cassettes. Keep the cd media out of the sun and away from heat, and they'll be fine. I'd be more worried about the players not being available/functional in 10 years, when everything is stored on microchips the size of pinheads.

 

[ruadmaa]

I Seriously Hope You're Right

Similar arguments were made for LP's and cassettes. Keep the cd media out of the sun and away from heat, and they'll be fine. I'd be more worried about the players not being available/functional in 10 years, when everything is stored on microchips the size of pinheads.

I have a rather large 16mm film collection. Within the last few years more than a few have experienced the vinegar syndrome. (i.e. the plastic itself is decomposing). In regard to vinyl and tapes. I also have several vinyl albums that are more than 30 years old that look absolutely pristine but when I try to play them they are loaded with distortion. I have had magnetic recording tape turn "tacky" and be just about useless. I beleive a lot of longevity is due to the quality of the originaly vinyl/plastic in the first place and of course storage conditions. In the case of my degraded films/tapes, all were stored under ideal conditions (air conditioning/not exposed to light etc.)

I seriously hope that my burned disks will last more than 5 years. Otherwise, what's the point of burning them.

 

[gnagel]

Last month, we finally converted our old family Super 8MM movies to DVD. These films were shot in 1966 (40 years ago!)

Although the contrast wasn't as good as it once was, the film certainly held up well over the years. We were very pleased with the quality of the DVD images.

These films were viewed numerous times over the years and stored in a damp basement (not the best choice). Yet, the films held up for that long.

I also have nearly 12,000 Kodak slides that I shot in the 1970s. These color slides look nearly as good as the day they were developed--the colors are as vibrant as they were 30 years ago. Of course, I have stored these slides in a low humidity, dark environment.

I sometimes think claims about how these sources degrade in just a few years are highly exaggerated.

 

[ruadmaa]

You Were Lucky

Last month, we finally converted our old family Super 8MM movies to DVD. These films were shot in 1966 (40 years ago!)

Although the contrast wasn't as good as it once was, the film certainly held up well over the years. We were very pleased with the quality of the DVD images.

These films were viewed numerous times over the years and stored in a damp basement (not the best choice). Yet, the films held up for that long.

I also have nearly 12,000 Kodak slides that I shot in the 1970s. These color slides look nearly as good as the day they were developed--the colors are as vibrant as they were 30 years ago. Of course, I have stored these slides in a low humidity, dark environment.

I sometimes think claims about how these sources degrade in just a few years are highly exaggerated.

Yes, I also have 8mm home movies from the 50's and also a reel to reel tape recording of my grandfather made in 1956 and they are perfectly fine. On the other hand, I have had several films that were not much more than 20 years old that decomposed to the point that they could no longer be projected.

In my case, it is no laughing matter that I have lost several thousand dollars worth of film due to decomposition. The demonstration tape that I got with my Akai reel to reel tape recorder back in 1965 has turned tacky.

As I stated in my above post, much of the longevity of stored information is to due to the original quality of the material itself. Yes, I have grammophone (Edison) recordings from the 1920's that are fine, but they are made out of a bakelite sort of material that is very durable.

I have learned form past experience that nothing is "forever". Some things just last longer than others. Archival storage of information whether it be audio or video is very difficult to achieve.

 

[Hi Ho]

I have some 9 year old CD-R's that still work fine. I have hundreds of CD-R's and none have had problems except some really cheap Khypermedia discs that literally flaked away (data layer peeled off). Even the discs that have endured extreme heat and cold in my vehicles still work fine. The Verbatim CD-RW that came with my Plextor CD burner years ago still works after being beat like you couldn't imagine (dropped, scratched, run over by a car, etc.)

I'd say recordable CD's/DVD's are quite durable.

I will soon start the process of transferring to DVD hours upon hours of home video on VHS from the late 80's to late 90's that is all starting to degrade. Some of it is already unusable.

 

[Jedi2016]

What they neglect to mention is how tapes also degrade. Technically speaking, the data on a tape will remain there indefinitely (which is the basis of his argument), but an old tape becomes unreadable very quickly simply because of dust/dirt/crap/muck that builds up on it.

Case in point.. our clients make backups onto tape. Some of these backups must be kept for seven years, and routinely verified (IRS regs and stuff). Putting a four or five year old tape into the drive to verify often results in having to replace the tape drive.. it may or may not verify the tape, and afterwards, it's got so much crap on the heads from that old tape that it can't do anything else unless you burn through a half-dozen cleaning tapes.. and even then, it'll probably need to be replaced.

Granted, our systems are extremely picky about how accurate the data is (have to be, really), but still... what good is "infinite" data if you lose the ability to access it after just a few years?

I still say discs are the better option.

 

[MDS]

My opinion is that we don't yet have enough evidence to make any definitive claims on the longevity of optical discs. If you search for info on the various types of materials used to make CD-R (cyanine, pthalocyanine, azo, etc) you will invariably find links to 'accelerated aging' studies and find out that we just don't have enough evidence yet, but... from what I remember of said studies the mean lifetime is much longer than 5 years.

 

[mike c]

who cares ... i dont care ... even the carebears don't care. j/k

when I backup my data: pictures, songs, etc.
I burn them again after a few years (and make sure I use a slow speed)

good as new. do you plan to live forever?

 

[Duffinator]

This article is nothing new and this has been talked about for years. Like many of you I have my photos, audio, and video in digital format and don't want any of it to disappear over time. Several of the disc manufacturers are working on "archive quality" discs that will last 50 to 100 years. But when in doubt backup all your files on two external hard drives and rotate them frequently.

 

[j_garcia]

I could see an arguement for the cheapest, crappiest blank media being valid, but if you buy decent media, it should not be a problem. I can't tell you how old my oldest CDRs are, but it's measured in years and they mostly see use in my car also. NONE have failed from degradation that wasn't cause by physical damage to the discs (scratches). My oldest CDs are probably on the order of 15yrs old and no problems there either. ALL storage media degrades over time...

 

[korgoth]

it all depends on how you handle them, and yes on the quality of the media.

if you choose to use quality media it will last a lot longer.

and if you keep it cool it will definately last longer than 5 years. I have 100's of cd that i burned well over 5 years ago. probobly around 97-98, and they all work perfect, the only ones that deteriorate are the ones left in the sun, or left wet. water does the most damage.

dvd's are the same. buy good media and it will last much longer. keep it out of the sun and out of moisture.

 

[Watkibr]

The issue is that CD-R's use a dye based recording layer while CD-RW use an alloy based recording layer. CD-RW's need to be able to change the phase (1 or 0) of the material over and over to provide the "re-write" function. CD-R's just have to be burned once, you can add more data to them but never to the same actual area on the disc.

So it is common to find most folks expect more longevity from the CD-RW's.

I think this thread is right in that in most cases the shelf life is so long that for most uses it is not worth the added cost of CD-RW. If you want to archive for posterity, pick another method or buy good CD-RW's and dont use them day to day to avoid surface scratches, etc.