Do AVRs and 5.1 speakers need to be matched?

[TLN1]

I have trouble hearing (30 yr. in factory) dialog. I have been looking at Harman Kardon AVRs 254 or 2600 and matching with HK 5.1 speakers HKTS 15 or 18. These seem to be well rated for clarity and range.
1. Is this a good choice?
2. Would I be better off to put my limited money in a better center speaker like an Infinity Cascade with a really cheap front & sub and some really cheap wireless rear?
I'm just tired of the TV dialogue sounding like they have a mouth full of marbles and being overshadowed by the music.
My living room is 13' x 22'.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have trouble hearing (30 yr. in factory) dialog. I have been looking at Harman Kardon AVRs 254 or 2600 and matching with HK 5.1 speakers HKTS 15 or 18. These seem to be well rated for clarity and range.
1. Is this a good choice?
2. Would I be better off to put my limited money in a better center speaker like an Infinity Cascade with a really cheap front & sub and some really cheap wireless rear?
I'm just tired of the TV dialogue sounding like they have a mouth full of marbles and being overshadowed by the music.
My living room is 13' x 22'.

If you are interested in better dialog, you need to look to the speakers to do that, not an avr, unless you also need one for other reasons.

 

[JerryLove]

If you are interested in better dialog, you need to look to the speakers to do that, not an avr, unless you also need one for other reasons.

I disagree. If we assume that the best possible sound is "true to life", then the best speaker in the world won't help. His hearing problem is selective and requires a selective solution. To solve it with speakers would be to look for one broken in "just the right way".

Instead: I'd look at AVRs with "midnight mode" (comes under various names, and I think most have them), which seeks to keep the dialog area of the noise at a constant minimum level.

If he can quantify the nature of his hearing loss (and if there are no other listeners to harm by this), an EQ set to boost the areas of low-sensitivity would be an option as well (AVRs often have built in EQs, but matching to the loss might require something more sophisticated).

Also: take a look at speaker placement / angle, and room accoustics. When setting up in the bedroom, I had a problem with dailog until Phantoming the center.

 

[sholling]

All you need from the AVR is the feature set that you want, and enough power to comfortably power the speakers you choose. A brand match isn't even desirable.

With hearing loss I'd be concentrating on getting three properly matched front speakers. It's that timbre matched center that's going to be handling the dialog while the left and right that are going to be handling the majority of non-dialog movie sound and music. I'd want something with a decent and fairly beefy center. The surrounds can come later when money allows.

Lets start with shaving some money off that receiver budget and getting you more bang for the buck - assuming you are in the US. Accessories for less (good company) has refurbished Onkyo TX-SR607 AVRs for $319 shipped. I bought my bedroom AVR from them and it's been great. The only thing it won't do us upscale to 1080P but it will pass through 1080P sources and upscale lower resolutions to 1080i. I like them much better than HKs. If you need 1080P upscaling then they have refurb TX-SR707s for $480.

Now lets use some of that receiver budget to improve your speaker choices...

Option 1
Two (or three) pair of Behringer B2030P bookshelf studio monitors for $140/pr shipped. They aren't pretty but they sound really good for the price. Use them as the left, right and center, and if funds allow - surrounds. Yes you'll be left with a spare. So we're at $280 for 2 pair (Left, right, center and spare). $420 if you buy 3pr. Assuming you don't have anyone below you you could pick up a Hsu Research STF-2 subwoofer for $350 plus S&H. Or if that's two much money or you have somebody below you then you could perhaps get by with a $155 + S&H Dayton sub from Parts Express. The The Dayton is a bit small for that room but the Hsu fires down while the Dayton fires out the front.

Option 2
This is a little more wife friendly (attractive). If you google well you should be able to find Boston Acoustics CS26 bookshelf speakers for $80ea for the left and right. A CS225C center for $150 (or a used VR10 center), and a pair of Wharfedale WH-2 surrounds for $80/pr. Not great surrounds but good bang for the buck. That's $390 plus S&H and a subwoofer from "Option 1". A note on the Bostons - they are rear ported and need space around and behind them. This is similar to my bedroom arrangement (see signature).

Option 3
Is the budget buster. SVSound has a couple of really nice matched 5.1 packages. They are out of stock for a few weeks but are giving a discount to make up for the wait.

Save some money on cables by buying them from Monoprice.com.

 

[sholling]

I disagree. If we assume that the best possible sound is "true to life", then the best speaker in the world won't help. His hearing problem is selective and requires a selective solution. To solve it with speakers would be to look for one broken in "just the right way".

Actually depending on the type of hearing loss this isn't a bad solution. Two of the common types of factory hearing loss are high frequency loss and the inability to hear when two people are talking. I came very close to suggesting something like a slightly bright set of speakers like Klipsch to make up for a little bit of HF loss but the key part of the request "I'm just tired of the TV dialogue sounding like they have a mouth full of marbles and being overshadowed by the music" leads me to thinking the quality of the center is the key.

Instead: I'd look at AVRs with "midnight mode" (comes under various names, and I think most have them), which seeks to keep the dialog area of the noise at a constant minimum level.

This is an excellent idea. But it still needs to be used in conjunction with a center that pulls its weight and is aimed at the seating position. Bottom line a little wimpy center would not be my preference.

If he can quantify the nature of his hearing loss (and if there are no other listeners to harm by this), an EQ set to boost the areas of low-sensitivity would be an option as well (AVRs often have built in EQs, but matching to the loss might require something more sophisticated).

Also: take a look at speaker placement / angle, and room accoustics. When setting up in the bedroom, I had a problem with dialog until Phantoming the center.

The OP should also plan on using the receiver's auto-setup and a rat shack SPL meter to balance the speaker and make sure that the center isn't being overwhelmed. Perhaps even giving the center a couple of db of boost but only if necessary.

 

[JerryLove]

This is an excellent idea. But it still needs to be used in conjunction with a center that pulls its weight and is aimed at the seating position. Bottom line a little wimpy center would not be my preference.

Agreed. I did not mean to imply "any old speaker will do", only that there comes a point where the solution moves from speaker improvements to massaging of the source.

Obviously a center that cannot do what is being asked of it will not help.

 

[sholling]

Agreed. I did not mean to imply "any old speaker will do", only that there comes a point where the solution moves from speaker improvements to massaging of the source.

Obviously a center that cannot do what is being asked of it will not help.

I agree fully and just used that part of your excellent post as a springboard for reemphasizing a beefy center and in no way meant to imply that you weren't in favor of the same thing. My apologies if it came across as anything else.

 

[tom67]

hearing problem

Getting there myself at age 61....your question best handled by hearing expert vs audio enthusiast.....Generally speaking, the less sources, the better you hear dialog or speech....thats why hearing impaired folks avoid large venues with sounds coming from multiple locations. You may find that 3 channel (left, right and center) best for you, with emphasis on center with receiver settings. newer hearing aids are very sophisticated and correct for these problems, but now you are pitting one technology against another....

 

[TLN1]

Lost my 1st reply

I don't know where my 1st reply went but many THANKS to all.
Yes, I do need an AVR anyway. Thought about an older one without HDMI but decided that was something I wanted.
Some might say not being able to hear women and little kids is a good thing. It's not. I've never heard of midnight mode, sounds good. I try to compensate for not being able to hear by turning up the volume but it doesn't make it any clearer. It just irritates anyone else watching.
I wasn't trying to match brands as much as $ points. Refurb AVR2600 for less than $300 E-bay.
If I have interpreted correctly order of importance afterAVR with midnight mode.
1. center speaker
2. front L&R
3. rear L&R
4. Sub

Any comment on the Infinity Cascade center?

 

[TLN1]

I have "computer tuned " hearing aids with te tone and volume pre set for my hearing. It was really amazing when I left the audiologist in October of 2000 or 2001. I realized how loud blowing leaves were. There were a lot of things that I hadn't really heard for years wind, water and birds. Resturaunts were deafening and when I took them out at night I really couldn't hear a thing. I guess after having the volume up all day I became acclimatized. I don't wear them very often anymore batteries will eat you up.

 

[Pure_Brew]

I have found that constant directivity transducers (horns) tend to find favor with people that have some impairment in hearing. Rather then go with a speaker whose design focuses on a wide off axis response, or even power responses, the horns from speakers like Klipsch's will allow the sound to be more focused directly at you, and reflected sound that will be greatly attenuated.

This is favorable since strong off axis behavior is almost equal to the on axis response in some designs. So really what happens is you hear sound coming at you with almost equal force but at a slight delay from the side walls, floors, ceilings etc. This is why boosting the center only makes it louder but not clearer.

Public address systems work in a similar fashion, limited directivity-high efficiency.

Best you can do is try things out, dare I say even try different center channels first, and build your entire system around that after.

 

[sholling]

If I have interpreted correctly order of importance afterAVR with midnight mode.
1. center speaker
2. front L&R
3. rear L&R
4. Sub

Any comment on the Infinity Cascade center?

It depend on your choices for the front three. With some tower speakers and a beefy center you can sometimes get away without the sub but for bookshelf speakers you do need a sub. I would do 1, 2 and 4 at the same time. I would start with the fronts, a center and the sub. You would be into a 2.1 "option 1" or "option 2" from my earlier post plus the Dayton sub and be around $500. You can always add a second sub and the surrounds later.

Another option that I normally would recommend against a is a Home theater in a box (HTIB) but if you can't hear well enough to really appreciate better speakers this HTIB would give you everything but a Blu-Ray player and hits your price point. Mini review. It comes with a pretty decent receiver. The Onkyo speakers that I've heard didn't sound bad for HTIB speakers. Maybe you could give a listen at best buy.

But cheer up. Years ago good friend wore hearing aids in both ears and had a killer system. Stereo was his passion. I'm going to agree with whoever said to get to an audiologist and see what he/she recommends before spending any money. Who knows maybe there is something that can be done.

 

[skers_54]

I have "computer tuned " hearing aids with te tone and volume pre set for my hearing. It was really amazing when I left the audiologist in October of 2000 or 2001. I realized how loud blowing leaves were. There were a lot of things that I hadn't really heard for years wind, water and birds. Resturaunts were deafening and when I took them out at night I really couldn't hear a thing. I guess after having the volume up all day I became acclimatized. I don't wear them very often anymore batteries will eat you up.

It might be time to go back and have your hearing re-evaluated. You naturally lose high-frequency hearing ability as you age, so that compounds the hearing loss from your job. I suspect that you've had significant changes since you were first evaluated. Also, it sounds like the level may be set too high on the hearing aids if you can't wear them. That's definitely something I would talk to your doc about as he may be able to do a simple fix. I know this is not an inexpensive proposition, but it could pay big dividends in the long run.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have "computer tuned " hearing aids with te tone and volume pre set for my hearing. It was really amazing when I left the audiologist in October of 2000 or 2001. I realized how loud blowing leaves were. There were a lot of things that I hadn't really heard for years wind, water and birds. Resturaunts were deafening and when I took them out at night I really couldn't hear a thing. I guess after having the volume up all day I became acclimatized. I don't wear them very often anymore batteries will eat you up.

Boy, I didn't realize you have that much of a hearing issue. My suggestions don't apply then. May need to revisit that audiologist for a solution?