DLP vs LCD

[Buckeyefan 1]

New article in Sound and Vision Mag - just released

www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=837&page_number=1&preview=

I find it surprising they chose LCD with better color. I always thought DLP was by far the better overall unit, but with some maintenance strings attached. LCD prices are dropping like flies.

 

[HookedOnSound]

Thanks for posting the article link but I have some comments.

On Page 7, All three reviewers all said that both RPTVs had issues but they all said they'd pick DLP over LCD.

As far as shootouts, both of them left with bullet holes!

The LCD 'screen-door effect' was a big distraction that was emphasizsed, the DLP had it issues, but was less critical playback of actual program material even though LCD had several strengths during Test patterns.

Overall, I found the review confusing because they jumped back and forth without a logical pattern of comments/insight.

My In laws want a RPTV and I was hoping I could get them some good info from the post but I think I'll wait for an AH DLP vs. LCD RPTV shoot instead!

I feel like I am spoiled after reading the AH reviews! nothing else seems to compare

Thanks,

 

[brian32672]

I just read the article and the way I see it, 2 of the 3 say DLP is the way to go. The other says he's not sure. but sounded like the LCD was not the way he would go.

#1=So while the casual observer would be impressed at the similarity between the sets, the DLP had fewer problems with critical program material and is the one I preferred.
#2=I’m sure I’d find things to like with a big-screen LCD TV in my home theater, but given the choice, I’d buy a DLP.
#3=Yes, I did see lots of rainbows in the DLP (more than usual since I was constantly flicking my eyes back and forth from the DLP to the LCD). But I found the LCD’s screen-door effect even more distracting, especially in pans over bright areas where the grid seemed to sweep across the image.

And the color, well it said the LCD had more color saturation, but not better colors. Actually it stated that the DLP had better colors & much better greyscale and the LCD was off on most colors.

The DLP did better than the LCD at maintaining consistent color as the image brightness varied. On test patterns, it showed an even ramp of mid-gray tones between black and white, while the LCD showed slight green or red tints at different steps — an effect we could occasionally see in movie clips. DK pointed out that in a high-def D-VHS tape of Terminator 2, the actors’ skin had a pink-red bias on the LCD but looked completely natural on the DLP. Both DR and DK also noted a blue cast to shadows in some of the dark clips we watched on the LCD set, like the bar scene from Ed Wood.

The article clearly shows that DLP is the way to go, but by a small margin. I myself would not buy a rear projection tv, because you have no viewing angle unless you go with plasma. But with Plasma, you have a good chance of burn in. I went with DLP front projection on a 96" and a 120" screen. Twice the size of any rear projection tv. And Front projection can be suited to any size (25" to 400"+). Regardless of front or rear, you will still have to buy a very expensive bulb about every year and a half. (Depends on how much you watch) But their are quite a few DLP bulbs rated at up to 8,000 hours. And that would be like 4 years for me. (Time for an upgrade at that time anyway) I am not prone to the RBE but have seen the LCD screen door effect. And using such a large screen is one reason I would not go with a LCD.

 

[Catdaddy]

Brian, are you able to use any DLP bulb with any DLP projector? 8,000 hour bulb sounds handy-dandy .. but wont it have to be similar to the bulb i have in my projector for me to be able to use it?

Forgive my ignorance on the matter, something I guess I need to research more.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Projector lamps are not interchangable and very few front projectors are designed around 50" projection, but more like 100" projection. So, rear projection DLP & LCD sets can slightly dim the bulbs and have designs that ensure good airflow around the projector to keep things cool. Then, the 8,000 hour rating is just a 'rating' not necessarily a reality.

So, no, you can't - though it would be nice to have some standardization in projector lamps.

For front projection, the longest bulb I think I have seen is in the Sim2 HT300 projectors. I believe we are talking 8,000 hours there as well in an excellent front projection design.

 

[brian32672]

As stated above No, bulbs are not interchangeable. However the newer bulbs are based on a different technology than the older bulbs. And the average is now 3000 hours. Some Mitsubishis are 5000. Some low line Barco (still expensive) is 6000 hours. Others range in here, but look for newer models.

Also with the amount of lumens these are pushing, for regular home theater - there is no reason why normal mode should be used. And most home theaters with reasonable controlled light will certainly be able to use projector in eco mode. To save power and bulb life. All projectors I have had and use at night I had to use in eco mode and usually even lower on brightness control. Mine were a 1000, 2300, and 3000 lumen. At night all generated more than enough light in a condo with plenty of windows. The 3000 one has always been used in eco mode.

Life expectancy of a bulb is just a general rating. Usually the DLP/LCD projector bulb can be used much longer or shorter (depending on use) As I have a friend with a Yamaha DPX1 And I believe his bulb is rated at 1000 hours, however his last bulb change was close to 3000 (I believe it was 2800) The bulb itself will slowly die down as well, giving you less than optimum performance. And a new bulb change will generally give you a brand new picture. Also characteristics of each bulb are slightly different and usually will require new calibrations to all or at least one color. Most projectors have safety features not allowing the bulb to blow, and unit will shut down before this happens. Usually only on defective bulbs or bulbs way past change time.

There are places that will also refurbish your bulb back to standards at a much lower cost than a factory new one. Search the net for that, but am told there is a guy on eBay that will do this for a very small fee.

Image size can go much smaller than 50" on projectors. Look at the Epson S1 its rating starts at 17" - 300" The Mitsubishi DLP Pocket projector (granted look at the name) will work and is made for smaller images starting at 12" - 60" Speaking of Mitsubishi, they actually warranty their bulbs for 1 year, compared to industry standard of 90 days...

 

[brian32672]

Oops forgot to also add, that even though it could be expensive. There are also places that will grind and polish new lens for different throw sizes, giving you a completely different size screen. There are formulas for this on the net. An optometrist usually has all tools for this as well. I personally have no friends for this, but you may.

There are also companies with lenses premade, and are quite cheap. Which again could change your size and throw.

Some companies like NEC even offer two lenses that will give you a true 4:3 format and another lense for true 16:9 format. Or at least I believe it was NEC?????

 

[dloweman]

So, basically what everyone is trying to get at is that whether you go lcd, or dlp, bulb life is a factor and you can expect to pay roughly 4-500 for a new bulb approx every 1.5-2 years is that correct?

 

[Tomorrow]

So, basically what everyone is trying to get at is that whether you go lcd, or dlp, bulb life is a factor and you can expect to pay roughly 4-500 for a new bulb approx every 1.5-2 years is that correct?

My lcd has a stated bulb life of 10,000 hours. Bulbs for my set are $300. I don't know if it will achieve 10,000, but I am laying in a spare for when it does go. (Or to enhance it's sale value when I move to plasma.) But that's a LOT of viewing hours. It is also my understanding that the ballast should be replaced whenever a bulb is changed to maximize bulb life. It was stated to me by a tv tech that there is a "curing" process between bulb and ballast. That may be smoke and snake oil, too, though. I just dunno.

Finally, I have not noticed any negative "screen door" effect on my 50" lcd. I suppose if I get too close to it. But at normal viewing distances, it's not a problem at all...with any video source. It's not perfect by a large margin...but the price is right for the HDTV 50" screen in a light weight package.

 

[dloweman]

I just read the audioholics article on hdtv's and it said in there that both dlp and lcd tv's have bulb lifes of 8-10000 hours is this so? I really prefer dlp but don't want to be spending 500 every 2 years for a new bulb!! any one with any experience with this? thanks

 

[cam]

I just read the audioholics article on hdtv's and it said in there that both dlp and lcd tv's have bulb lifes of 8-10000 hours is this so? I really prefer dlp but don't want to be spending 500 every 2 years for a new bulb!! any one with any experience with this? thanks

I think 10000 hours would be very rare, 4000 to 8000 would be more like it. And I have heard of some people only getting about 1500 hours on a bulb. I don't know about the samsung's or sony's but the toshiba's in my area cost $300 Canadian. I don't think I would buy a model that required a $500 bulb.

 

[Snap]

Couple things I would like to add.

1. New RP LCD that just came out..(SXRD) would really blow your mind as far as PQ is concerned. 6 months ago, I would agree that DLP had a better PQ. Not any more.

2. RP LCD has no moving parts. (No color wheel that spins) So no moving parts equals less chance to BREAK! Kind of the like the whole Matag Washer deal. 3 moving parts vs 20 moving parts in the compititon.

Just my input on the matter.

 

[Hanse18]

Couple things I would like to add.

1. New RP LCD that just came out..(SXRD) would really blow your mind as far as PQ is concerned. 6 months ago, I would agree that DLP had a better PQ. Not any more.

2. RP LCD has no moving parts. (No color wheel that spins) So no moving parts equals less chance to BREAK! Kind of the like the whole Matag Washer deal. 3 moving parts vs 20 moving parts in the compititon.

Just my input on the matter.

I'm sure you were just trying to keep things simple for everyone, but just to expand, the Sony SXRD technology is actually Liquid Crystal on Silicone (LCoS). It is being touted as a cross between dlp and lcd, and in a way, it is. LCD uses small crystals trapped between 2 panes of glass and then sends light through. Apparently they can't get the little crystals TOO close together, hence the screen door effect is the space in between the crystals. (Obviously this is an over-simplified explanation of the LCD technology). DLP uses the spinning color wheel to create the different colors, and then reflects a particular color to wherever it needs to go via millions of little mirrors. LCoS uses the liquid crystals on a silicone sheet (instead of glass like in lcd) which then is reflected back to the little mirrors (like in DLP) which then projects the image onto the screen. The idea is no RBE and no SDE, for a much better picture. Plus all SXRD models are 1080p, so that helps the PQ as well.

 

[westcott]

Whatever technology route you take, make sure that you sit down with your significant other and watch a DLP based system for at least a half hour before spending a lot of your time unnecessarily. You may find that DLP is not in the cards for you or your family.

I agree with the others, rear projection is not going to get you the kind of picture quality for your money that one could get with a front projector or panel display. Burn in is not really an issue any more with the newer gases and hardware used in plasmas and lcds.

Front projection really is the most cost effective solution if you want a large picture.

 

[abboudc]

Whatever technology route you take, make sure that you sit down with your significant other and watch a DLP based system for at least a half hour before spending a lot of your time unnecessarily. You may find that DLP is not in the cards for you or your family.

Why that long? Eye strain?

 

[jaxvon]

Because of the way DLP operates (spinning color wheel), some people see rainbows and get headaches from watching a DLP image. I'm not one of them. Obviously Wescott is. Like he said, make sure to spend some time watching a DLP projector to get a feel for whether or not it's right for you.

 

[beam3]

I just read the audioholics article on hdtv's and it said in there that both dlp and lcd tv's have bulb lifes of 8-10000 hours is this so? I really prefer dlp but don't want to be spending 500 every 2 years for a new bulb!! any one with any experience with this? thanks

I'm pretty sure all rptv's have the bulb issue. My buddy has a 60" sony rplcd and his bulb blew in about a yr and a half.

 

[beam3]

Because of the way DLP operates (spinning color wheel), some people see rainbows and get headaches from watching a DLP image. I'm not one of them. Obviously Wescott is. Like he said, make sure to spend some time watching a DLP projector to get a feel for whether or not it's right for you.

Panasonic has implemented a new color wheel on their new dlp's. Instead of having 6 colors it has 8, 2 additional darker green cells to reduce or eliminate the green noise in dark picture areas. Their color wheel also spins upto 2x faster then other dlp's. Just thought I'd share that.

 

[westcott]

Why that long? Eye strain?

My wife and I spent some time at our local home theater store if front of some of the most expensive projectors made and my wife and I both suffered from headaches after about 20 minutes of viewing. I actually get motion sickness if I try to watch and walk at the same time. I viewed Runco's, Mitsu, Sony, NEC, etc. and no matter the color cell count or the rotation speed, we were still affected.

It was a shame because I really wanted the better black levels and contrast of the DLP technology but I am very happy with the PQ of the Panasonic. I hear the 900u is even better in this area!

 

[brian32672]

Because of the way DLP operates (spinning color wheel), some people see rainbows and get headaches from watching a DLP image. I'm not one of them. Obviously Wescott is. Like he said, make sure to spend some time watching a DLP projector to get a feel for whether or not it's right for you.

Totally agree here...

I have used the slowest color wheels/then went to faster wheels.. And neither me, my family, or any friends that have come over - Have ever seen the RBE. But you may. So check it out first..... Now SDE I have seen, and would not really want that in my HT. However most newer model LCDs have very minimal SDE. BTW - DLP as well has SDE, but not to the effect of LCD.
For me contrast was a big issue, but with some of the newer LCDs I may go ahead and try one of them soon. (When finances are better)