DIYSG speaker comparisons, which one would work for me?

Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
I’m considering the fusion over the cinema series, mainly for cost reasons. I’m not sure which speakers would fit my needs without spending more than necessary. Ideally, I’d like enough headroom to comfortably reach 95-100dB/ch (-10 to -5dB volume) with a lower mid priced receiver. I just purchased a Denon x1300w, rated at 80w/ch, but expect worst case scenario dips with multichannel peaks to around 50-65w.

My room is 20’x12’, opening to split level stair cases in the rear, and is well treated acoustically, so I don’t expect a ton of in room gain from reflections. I’m seated 10 1/2’ from the center channel, and the L/R in their current position are 11’ from the mlp. Sub is 9.5’ from the mlp, since I get the best response/boost by placing it in the right side of the front wall.


The second requirement, I’d like to be able to use an xover of 60hz, since I find this generally sounds better to me than 80hz. The fusion 8 is rated at an f3 of 65hz. I’d assume that’s full space? Since my room is 12’ wide, I get a ~47hz boost in room gain, the Klipsch R-15ms I’m using for my surrounds have an f3 of 63hz, but I get a solid f3 of 50hz in room, I’d assume I should have similar results with the fusion 8, no?

Second question, I’d like to up my LF headroom, but am not sure if adding a second Dayton sub or going for a single DIY build is a better option. Using cea 2010 burst tones and band limited pink noise, at the mlp, the Dayton sub 1500 can comfortably produce 105dB from 23hz on up. A second sub, stacked directly on top of the first sub would give me a 6dB boost, taking me from 105dB to 111dB.

For diy subs, I’ve been looking into the stereo integrity cheap 18” sub, since diysg has a prebuilt enclosure for it, it’d make assembly a lot easier, I do not have the time or tools to build an enclosure. I would likely EQ the sub via the behringer nu3000dsp or a linkwitz transform circuit to have a flat response to 20hz.

Can a single sealed one of these handle 105-110dB in my room, or would adding a second sub 1500 be a better option? At this time, I’m not looking to do dual diy subs due to cost concerns. So it’s down to one or the other.

Couple of questions on the waveguides used in the fusion/cinema speakers. What is the radiation pattern? The Klipsch I currently have are 90x90, and offer very good coverage across my entire room, even at the “mother in law” seat along the wall. I’d actually prefer a narrower vertical pattern. The Klipsch with a 90degree vertical pattern is nice because it doesn’t suffer treble roll off when standing, but at the same time, it increases floor/ceiling reflections, which are an issue in my room due to an 8’ ceiling and hardwood floor.

As for finishing the cabinets, what is the simplest way to do this? I really don’t give a poop about making them look nice, I listen to speakers and watch the tv, not the other way around. The main concern would be protecting the mdf. Would simple black gloss paint work?

Lastly, which speakers would work well for atmos heights? I’m not sure if the volt coaxial speakers or a pair of fusion 6 would work better. I realize the volts have very wide off axis dispersion, but the constant directivity of the seos horns may offer better image stability for those off axis.

I’m currently using Klipsch speakers mounted to the ceiling, vertically toed in at the mlp. They work extremely well for this because they offer uniform directivity out to 12khz +-45 degrees horizontally, and +- 30 degrees vertically. Since the coverage is 60 degrees vertical, those sitting off axis left or right experience a fairly stable height image, since the “MIL” seat is about 60 degrees off axis to the right overhead speaker, it’s about 9dB lower than the left top, providing the benefit of time intensity trading, avoiding hotspotting issues.





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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Since you seem to be interested in constant directivity, I would go for one of the SEOS horn speakers. My personal fav is the Fusion 15, that is a truly stupendous speaker. I was at a GTG some time ago; we pitted it against a Synergy horn, and it was able to hold its own. And needless to say, that will not be taxed in terms of dynamic range. The dispersion pattern is excellent. The designer, Matt Grant, is a really sharp guy.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
Since you seem to be interested in constant directivity, I would go for one of the SEOS horn speakers. My personal fav is the Fusion 15, that is a truly stupendous speaker. I was at a GTG some time ago; we pitted it against a Synergy horn, and it was able to hold its own. And needless to say, that will not be taxed in terms of dynamic range. The dispersion pattern is excellent. The designer, Matt Grant, is a really sharp guy.
Isn’t that overkill though?


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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
As for finishing the cabinets, what is the simplest way to do this? I really don’t give a poop about making them look nice, I listen to speakers and watch the tv, not the other way around. The main concern would be protecting the mdf. Would simple black gloss paint work?
If you want to see every defect, gloss black is the best way to achieve that. Satin black is more forgiving, but you'll still see flaws. Lighter colors are much more forgiving and the less gloss it has, the less you'll see the flaws.


If you have a router and a rabbet bit, you could veneer the box pretty easily without needing to worry about perfect corners. Lay the veneer on with whatever adhesive you want and when it's set, clean up the corners so the sides are clean and straight, then rout the rabbets on all edges. Install a strip of matching or contrasting wood (whatever looks best) and cut to length and fit it well. Sand the edge so they blend into the veneer and round over or chamfer the edges, as desired. Do the final sanding and stain (if you want) & finish to suit. If you don't want to see flaws, use gloss clear, sand before final coat of satin (satin isn't as hard or durable as gloss because of the modifiers that alter the chemistry).
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I wonder what it would look like if you just used the same paint (and color) as your walls in that room. That would get you a satin or flat finish and typically walls are light colored, so it is a win-win for hiding flaws.
Surely someone with DIY subs has matched the wall color, but I have never seen a photo!
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
My wall is an ugly off beige no thanks lol. Any danger in leaving them unfinished until I get vacation time from work?


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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Beyond me how you can prefer a 60 hz crossover with a speaker you've not heard....

Last I saw Stereo Integrity is no longer offering the HT18" v2 driver, but there is a sale on the much more expensive HSTs right now so you might check into that before buying a box....altho look in the classifieds, believe SeismicHT is selling several v1 HT18D2 drivers....
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Isn’t that overkill though?


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All of the Fusion line are going to be overkill. Even the Alchemy is a beast for it's size. In spite of the Fusion line's DIY associations, they are professional speakers. The SEOS waveguides perform as advertised. You can ask my neighbor opposite my back yard, 3 houses down, that likes to blare Mariachi music outdoors up to the last, noise ordinance minute, just how loud the 12's can get even outdoors. And that with just about half of a 120WPC AVR. I can't even imagine if I started to get anywhere near their 500W limit.

The Fusion line are revealing, loud, low distortion speakers and are absolutely ridiculous. I dig that. :D
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
All of the Fusion line are going to be overkill. Even the Alchemy is a beast for it's size. In spite of the Fusion line's DIY associations, they are professional speakers. The SEOS waveguides perform as advertised. You can ask my neighbor opposite my back yard, 3 houses down, that likes to blare Mariachi music outdoors up to the last, noise ordinance minute, just how loud the 12's can get even outdoors. And that with just about half of a 120WPC AVR. I can't even imagine if I started to get anywhere near their 500W limit.

The Fusion line are revealing, loud, low distortion speakers and are absolutely ridiculous. I dig that. :D
Would the fusion 8 do well? I considered the 6, but the sensitivity is fairly similar to the RP-150m (both 89dB anechoically) I’m currently using, assuming anechoic measurements are done on the fusion. The idea is to have the speaker do the work rather than relying on gobs of amplifier power, in other words, reference volume with 80-100wpc with amp headroom to spare.


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M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Would the fusion 8 do well? I considered the 6, but the sensitivity is fairly similar to the RP-150m (both 89dB anechoically) I’m currently using, assuming anechoic measurements are done on the fusion. The idea is to have the speaker do the work rather than relying on gobs of amplifier power, in other words, reference volume with 80-100wpc with amp headroom to spare.
I may be using 1-3 watts with the Fusion 12's most days. In your case, I would just email Erich at diysoundgroup and ask him specifically since he knows these speakers better than anyone, and I am thinking he would rather people ask him as well. I got the heads up from a member here initially, but I emailed Erich as well before I bought them. If not for my experience with 12" being the smallest woofer (usually it was 15's) I had ever used in a main speaker, I likely could have easily used the Alchemy.

I am only 2 channel music though and wanted the 12's for other reasons that don't exactly jive with the current logic with trends that just can't seem to take HT out of the equation. The Fusion-12's, reach down into the upper 30's-low 40's. I don't really need a subwoofer with them. Sometimes, I just want to hear that fabulous, Eminence Delta Pro-12A woofer on it's own.

ETA: I am likely going to buy the Alchemy in the future as well just to make a mini-me of my Tempests. I have almost pulled the trigger on them a few times and I don't even need them.
 

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