DIY Loudspeakers: Can You Build "Better" Than Professional Designs?

[Nuance AH]

I knew you would say that so I chose my words wisely!

I don't want a SS12..I want a sensitive Revel Salon 2.

Well jeez, build me one of those too if you figure out how to do it.

 

[monkish54]

Well jeez, build me one of those too if you figure out how to do it.

I can name the drivers if you'd like? Have Dennis work you up a crossover!

 

[Chu Gai]

Waiting only until October of this year? AE is damned lucky no one's contacted the AG's office with these preposterous wait times.

 

[monkish54]

Waiting only until October of this year? AE is damned lucky no one's contacted the AG's office with these preposterous wait times.

I edited my post. I meant December of last year!

TBH, I will continue to purchase from AE, and I hope they stay afloat. It wasn't John's fault everything went to hell and I got a HUGE discount!

Is John communicating perfectly, no, certainly not, but he's running a 3 man show and he spends his time getting drivers out instead of taking new orders and responding to inquires. I respect that he is losing sales so he can make good with us group buy guys. I wish he'd stop it! People are much too critical of him. He can only do so much. I'd rather my drivers be delayed longer than AE go out of business. IMO, John is doing what he can to make it right, and I appreciate it!

 

[Chu Gai]

December of last year! That's more like it! As for it not being his fault, only one side of the story has been presented. I don't very much go for this 'not my fault' thing. He's a poor businessman.

 

[monkish54]

December of last year! That's more like it! As for it not being his fault, only one side of the story has been presented. I don't very much go for this 'not my fault' thing. He's a poor businessman.

The parts from China didn't arrive in time. He posted numerous emails where the Chinese said "sucks to be you". It is not his fault and he's doing the best he can!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As for the actual SS12..I don't know what the measurements look like, Salk will only post the on-axis!

What? Why is that? The off-axis is the most important, right?

Why would you be proud to show the on-axis, but hide the off-axis?

Makes no sense.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I knew you would say that so I chose my words wisely!

I don't want a SS12..I want a sensitive Revel Salon 2.

Must be careful what you say.

I would take the Salon2 any day too.

Most people would.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 16K price gives him a little hope until he realizes he can't get it marked down any.

I wouldn't want it period even for $8K, which a pair of SS12 was listed for $8K on AudiogoN, but that's just my opinion.

 

[monkish54]

What? Why is that? The off-axis is the most important, right?

The listening Window is the most important, IMO. Followed by the off-axis out to 60 degrees. (Depends on wide or narrow directivity..)

Why would you be proud to show the on-axis, but hide the off-axis?

Normally, i'd respond 'cause the off-axis is crap! However, the SS12 intentionally uses a small midrange driver so that the off-axis/polar response would still be pretty good at the XO frequency. I'm not sure why they don't post it. I'll tell you one thing: I ain't spending my 16K till I see it!

Makes no sense.

It really doesn't!

 

[monkish54]

I wouldn't want it period even for $8K, which a pair of SS12 was listed for $8K on AudiogoN, but that's just my opinion.

I might have popped on that. It would take some serious consideration. The LSR 6332 is only 3K...

 

[jinjuku]

The time aspect of DIY keeps getting mentioned. For the people that are critical of 'your time spent' I believe you are missing the point.

Some of my best memories are in the garage with my dad or my friends. My first attempt was when I as 17 with Dad and working on a pair of bass bins with 12" Eminence drivers in 1/4 folded horn arrangement. And now again Pops and I worked on my Statements (they are NOT a 1 person build).

For all those that want to somehow cite time as a negative in all this, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Just purchase. For me that time is PRICELESS.

 

[Nuance AH]

What? Why is that? The off-axis is the most important, right?

Why would you be proud to show the on-axis, but hide the off-axis?

Makes no sense.

There you go again, claiming things that aren't true. Hiding? It's actually because he just hasn't gotten around to doing it. He's too busy running a business. I've told him to make time, though, to get people like you off his back.

Most people would.

Can you prove that?

I wouldn't want it period even for $8K, which a pair of SS12 was listed for $8K on AudiogoN, but that's just my opinion.

Thanks for proving my point that you have a vendetta against Salk. You've never heard the speaker but wouldn't want it period. LOL

 

[monkish54]

There you go again, claiming things that aren't true. Hiding? It's actually because he just hasn't gotten around to doing it. He's too busy running a business. I've told him to make time, though, to get people like you off his back.

Nuance, C'mon, man!

We both know I am the one who makes a big deal about off-axis, not ADTG. I was even the one who brought it up.

Dennis is the one who measures the response. At one point, I could have sworn, he said he took one but didn't save it. Even if he DIDN'T take a measurement of one recently, he certainly looked at the off-axis in his modeling program and certainly measured the prototype inside and out. The measurements exist and can be taken within a very short amount of time. Time is not the issue...

Doesn't a set of printed measurements come with the purchased speaker?

Thanks for proving my point that you have a vendetta against Salk. You've never heard the speaker but wouldn't want it period. LOL

There are plenty that I wouldn't want! Ever hear of Zu Audio?

 

[panteragstk]

The time aspect of DIY keeps getting mentioned. For the people that are critical of 'your time spent' I believe you are missing the point.

Some of my best memories are in the garage with my dad or my friends. My first attempt was when I as 17 with Dad and working on a pair of bass bins with 12" Eminence drivers in 1/4 folded horn arrangement. And now again Pops and I worked on my Statements (they are NOT a 1 person build).

For all those that want to somehow cite time as a negative in all this, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Just purchase. For me that time is PRICELESS.

Not a one person build? Crap. This is going to be more difficult than I thought.

 

[Nuance AH]

Nuance, C'mon, man!

We both know I am the one who makes a big deal about off-axis, not ADTG. I was even the one who brought it up.

Dennis is the one who measures the response. At one point, I could have sworn, he said he took one but didn't save it. Even if he DIDN'T take a measurement of one recently, he certainly looked at the off-axis in his modeling program and certainly measured the prototype inside and out. The measurements exist and can be taken within a very short amount of time. Time is not the issue...

Doesn't a set of printed measurements come with the purchased speaker?



There are plenty that I wouldn't want! Ever hear of Zu Audio?

Yes, but Zu measures poorly and sounds bad. I've heard their stuff and seen their measurements.

I think you're right: Dennis did have measurements of the SoundScapes, and they were quite good if I do recall. It's too bad he didn't save them. It hasn't deterred people from buying them, though. It's all about the sound, but measurements can help weed out the crap.

 

[jinjuku]

Not a one person build? Crap. This is going to be more difficult than I thought.

You are talking about 56" speakers. Mine weigh in at 130 lbs / per. It really is a two person job to manage that size of cut and it helps with assembly.

 

[lsiberian]

I'd argue any competent DIYer can engineer a better speaker for their room than a commercial company. Because they can tailor the crossover to the placement and room, they can match wood color to the aesthetics of the room and they experience the positive placebo effect of listening to their own creation.

Just like my wife can tailor food to our tastes(I can burn down the house) a speaker builder can tailor his speakers to his own tastes. That advantage is distinct to those of us who build speakers.

 

[lsiberian]

You are talking about 56" speakers. Mine weigh in at 130 lbs / per. It really is a two person job to manage that size of cut and it helps with assembly.

This is why I've learned the on top approach to sizing sheet goods. I simply don't have access to a second person. There are certainly disadvantages to this approach. A table saw gives a more accurate cut I'm sure.

 

[Nuance AH]

Nuance, C'mon, man!

We both know I am the one who makes a big deal about off-axis, not ADTG. I was even the one who brought it up.

Dennis is the one who measures the response. At one point, I could have sworn, he said he took one but didn't save it. Even if he DIDN'T take a measurement of one recently, he certainly looked at the off-axis in his modeling program and certainly measured the prototype inside and out. The measurements exist and can be taken within a very short amount of time. Time is not the issue...

Doesn't a set of printed measurements come with the purchased speaker?

Well what do you know: I found the E-mail with the SoundScape measurements. I also posted these plots in the Salk Sound thread over AVS a couple years ago when the speakers were first released. I only have the 15 and 30 degree plots, but you get the idea.

Impedance:

On-Axis:

15 Degrees:

30 Degrees:

I don't expect you to believe these are actually the SS12 measurements, so you can confirm with Jim and Dennis that they are. I wish he'd just put them on his website.