DIY Line source with 3.5 full range drivers and ribbon tweeter

[walter duque]

Well, looking at the drivers that I may consider, they only need compensation to cut peaks and perhaps very slight adjustments of dips, and then..... the eq will not put any more "pressure" on the drivers, in which way, I guess the eq would be pretty safe, right?

Check this site out, looks like they could be made.
http://www.cinepro.com/AFM-IWS-LitSpecsPage1-2_082708z.pdf

 

[highfigh]

Does anybody know how the actual series/parallel wiring of tweeters and woofers is physically set up?

I would think that since there are 9 of each, they would connect groups of 3 in series and connect those groups in parallel. That would yield the same nominal load, with added inductance. The variation in L could be measured and compensated for in the crossover design. The crossover could still be fairly simple unless they're doing something exotic/bizarre.

 

[jinjuku]

From previous post's some of you may know that I own a software dev company.

Customers all the time think since they don't hold a physical widget in their hand that some how that equals 'less value'. To the point that they think they can simply break a contract and not pay for what they purchased after they have it They don't like the outcome at court

Those line arrays represent tons of man hours in research and development. Prototypes, purchasing testing equipment and manufacturing. You could no more go out and spend $1500 in parts and build them for that price. No you would need shop tools, misc materials and your time (which you may value @ zero $$).

Customers want us to build them custom software all the time. Cost can be mitigated if it will be a popular feature that we can recoup our time investment on. Cost will be higher if you:

1. Want it to be solely for your use
2. Not very useful for other customers

We aren't out there to work for you for free. If you could write a better package using the plenty of free programming environments (IDE's) go knock your self the f' out.

I can't wait to see the Haraldo Line Arrays that are surely coming around the corner since they are so easy to R&D and only take $1500 in parts so they should sell for only $2000. $500 is PLENTY of profit. Glad I get to determine the profit you get to make off of you hard won efforts.

That you don't value someones time and education is quite clear:

"
So there's NO WAY I'm going to pay huge amount to somebody selling a speaker just because of the fact that they've done lots of research.....

Absolutely can't stand people that can't do shite for themselves and yet belittle those that posses the chops to do it. How much did college cost? How many weekends burnt up? How many iterations thrown away.

If they can get $40K for them it is because, regardless of price, they compete in that realm. Would there even be a thread if you didn't know what the component cost was? If you didn't know what the cost was would they some how be magically worth $40K? They can get $40K because they have real value at $40K. You aren't their target customer.

 

[haraldo]

I can't wait to see the Haraldo Line Arrays that are surely coming around the corner since they are so easy to R&D and only take $1500 in parts so they should sell for only $2000. $500 is PLENTY of profit. Glad I get to determine the profit you get to make off of you hard won efforts.

That you don't value someones time and education is quite clear:

Absolutely can't stand people that can't do shite for themselves and yet belittle those that posses the chops to do it. How much did college cost? How many weekends burnt up? How many iterations thrown away.

You are making a lot of assumptions here on things you don't know anything about
- When did I write it's easy to make such speakers
- When did I write that I can build anything remotely similar to this
- How do you know: That you don't value someones time and education is quite clear

I don't have the skills anyways to build such speakers, so if I would want anything performing like this I would have to buy off the shelf product. Still would like to give it a try with a linesource......

I'm in the software business myself.... and you know perfectly welll that if you research something for a long time that don't bring enough perceived value to the customer, you will be out of business very quickly... it's a cruel world and you can't invoice your customers for all kinds of research.

I have myself advised customers to buy $1.5M licenses of software, instead of getting free ones, because it will provide better perceived value in the long run, which also proved to be a correct choice.... in my opinion your analogies with software is way off target for this thread.

Perhaps my thoughts in previous posts are incorrect and based on things that I don't know, and perhaps I was way to hard in my choice of words.....
Perhaps there are way different drivers in these, perhaps everything is different from what I thought, perhaps I will change my mind and buy these speakers instead.....

What I know is that there are many viable companies out there doing tons of research on any product they put to market, can mention Vandersteen, Von Schweikert, and there are probably a whole bunch of others. Still, these products represent good perceived value if you look at what's inside.
I don't like when an audio manufacturer sell a product for "what he can charge for it"....

If you look at some digital amps with room correction like Lyngdorf, Holm, deqx and Tact they charge significantly for the software part of the amplifiers, and that's very viable because it brings value to the customer. It would not be ok if it didn't bring value to the end customer.

So I can't say that your post makes things any clearer to me.....

When you are making assumptions about others it should be based on facts.

-Regards

Harald

 

[jinjuku]

You are making a lot of assumptions here on things you don't know anything about

- When did I write it's easy to make such speakers

So there's NO WAY I'm going to pay huge amount to somebody selling a speaker just because of the fact that they've done lots of research.....

Obviously when you don't value someones efforts it's because you can do it yourself.

- When did I write that I can build anything remotely similar to this

Your are the one intimating that they use some off the shelf stuff. That they shouldn't be $38K because they obviously don't represent a tremendous effort. Therefore a non-tremendous effort would be easily DIY'd.

I don't have the skills anyways to build such speakers, so if I would want anything performing like this I would have to buy off the shelf product.

So they sound great, but since you know what the cost of only parts are, they now hold no value. So they can sound as good or better than another $38k pair of speakers but aren't worth it if their parts costs isn't $12K like another manufacturer? WOW.

I'm in the software business myself.... and you know perfectly welll that if you research something for a long time that don't bring enough perceived value to the customer, you will be out of business very quickly... it's a cruel world and you can't invoice your customers for all kinds of research.

You can't? R&D is always recouped through the price of the product. That is how it has worked for us the past 10+ years

I have myself advised customers to buy $1.5M licenses of software, instead of getting free ones, because it will provide better perceived value in the long run, which also proved to be a correct choice.... in my opinion your analogies with software is way off target for this thread.

Most people advise on pay solutions because you have a neck to choke and someone to blame if it goes wrong. It's called CYA. I generally don't recommend open source solutions unless there is some one there to stand behind it.

Perhaps my thoughts in previous posts are incorrect and based on things that I don't know, and perhaps I was way to hard in my choice of words.....
Perhaps there are way different drivers in these, perhaps everything is different from what I thought, perhaps I will change my mind and buy these speakers instead.....

You seem to be of the mind set that since you know the cost of something that it has destroyed it's value. If you can't see the difference I don't know what else to say.

What I know is that there are many viable companies out there doing tons of research on any product they put to market, can mention Vandersteen, Von Schweikert, and there are probably a whole bunch of others. Still, these products represent good perceived value if you look at what's inside.
I don't like when an audio manufacturer sell a product for "what he can charge for it"....

LOL. That is a good one. A group of smart people figure out a lower cost way (for them) to produce a speaker that competes with Vandersteen or Von Schweikert and all the sudden they are schmucks for capitalizing on it? So you would rather take the 'socialist' approach. Oh brother

I am sure most audio manufactures don't like people that can't design a speaker telling them what they should be charging for something.

If you look at some digital amps with room correction like Lyngdorf, Holm, deqx and Tact they charge significantly for the software part of the amplifiers, and that's very viable because it brings value to the customer. It would not be ok if it didn't bring value to the end customer.

So if you found out that these amps had only $300 in parts you wouldn't be ok with their price...

When you are making assumptions about others it should be based on facts.

Actually I based them on:

Looking at list price of drivers adding up to probably around $1500 for both speakers, it's a good way up to retail price of $38.000, and I don't think the cabinet and what's else inside would be so special.

and​

Oooooh, perhaps they use this superduper quark quanticied cryogen treated cable that has been treated in vacuum and brought to zero G by space shuttle to organize electron's properly according to the proton rotation's sequencing pattern, that may make a difference and is very exoensive.

and​

And, what bugs me is that for $38.000 these are probably the best selling high end speakers around here now. I just don't see how what gets in there can be sold for this amount.

and​

Well, to throw in a bunch of high quality full range drivers, extremely high quality tweeter, full digital x-over (Like Behringer Ultracurve Pro DEQ2496) and good amplifiers.... still not very expensive rig.

But still, there has to be a consistency between the value of the parts and retail price.

and​

Well, these speakers doesn't look like a million bucks, but they probably sound better than most things out there, even high profile Audio Physic speakers costing considerably more than what these do, listened to quite many of the very respected Audio physic's in the same shop as these, and the Audio Physic speakers aren't even close to what these speakers do.......... so in a sense they really provide value for money, still.....

still, it's the cost of what goes in there.......

and​

So there's NO WAY I'm going to pay huge amount to somebody selling a speaker just because of the fact that they've done lots of research.....

Harald

So in a nut shell they sound great but because you know what the hard cost per speaker is, they aren't worth it.

 

[haraldo]

I think your response is so off target, that I'm not going to spend my effort commenting.....

 

[jinjuku]

I think your response is so off target, that I'm not going to spend my effort commenting.....

So you're not discounting someone's efforts because you know cost of hardware?

Even if you don't see it, I am sure others will...

 

[haraldo]

So you're not discounting someone's efforts because you know cost of hardware?

Even if you don't see it, I am sure others will...

I will discuss with you when you get your facts right, and don't jump to false assumptions.....

 

[jinjuku]

I will discuss with you when you get your facts right, and don't jump to false assumptions.....

Feel free to prove me wrong... I am lying in wait.

 

[highfigh]

You kids! If I have to pull this thread over, someone is gonna get it! Play nice!

 

[jinjuku]

You kids! If I have to pull this thread over, someone is gonna get it! Play nice!

HE STARTED IT! lol