Disappointed with Blu-Ray

[Alamar]

Wow I guess that I got one thing right. The viewing calculator says that I should be a whisker over 7ft away [THX recommended] and I'm 6ft if I lean forward and about 7-8 fft if I lean back ...

Back to the topic: I'm wouldn't be surprised to hear that the problem is a combination of things. Viewing distance, so-so movies, PQ from the player, display quality, etc.....

Devil's Advocate: The caller seems to have been asking for a quantum leap in quality and I'm not sure if there is a QUANTUM LEAP in difference between the formats -- depending on how the QL is defined ...

For me the difference between VHS and DVD was night & day -- esp. on audio. From the demos that I've seen of BluRay / HD-DVD I haven't been bowled over by the difference. Sure there is a difference and it's noticeable but it is not orders of magnitude better than a really good SD-DVD.

 

[j_garcia]

On the best movies, the difference between SD DVD and BD IS about the same magnitude as it was going from VHS to DVD IMHO. As has been mentioned many times, this is not the case with every movie. I have only been disappointed with 2 or 3 movies PQ wise, but even with those movies the audio was still an improvement and worth it.

How about display calibration?

 

[Geno]

Just for the record, I sit about 15' from my 50" 720p screen. According to the charts, the difference between 1080P and 720P is undetectable by the human eye at that distance. Also, the player instructions recommend setting the players' output to match the 720P native resolution of my display. I did try 1080i, but couldn't see any appreciable difference. One movie that I did an A/B on was "Kingdom of Heaven". At the Best Buy, there was a demonstration using this movie with a curser splitting the screen between 480 SD and 1080 BD. The SD side was pretty blurry and indistinct compared to the BD side, as you might expect when trying to sell BD players. Unfortunately, my A/B test between my 3910 and the BD wasn't nearly as remarkable, even when I stood 3 feet from the display.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is, that since I have a pretty decent A-V system, I was not blown away with the differences. Incremental, maybe, but not night & day. Maybe with more experience with the best movies, I might change my mind. (BTW, I did see the POTC trilogy in BD, still not that impressed.)

 

[mike c]

time to buy a bigger display, or sit a lot closer

I sit 13' away from a 106" screen ... and it's still too far for HD formats, it's just that I have a lot of SD movies so I averaged the required distance.

for HD, I would recommend 1:1 size:distance

 

[Tomorrow]

Geno,

I'm still trying to figure out what a "paroxysm of bliss" feels like )), but I think we got it when we upgraded from SD to HD in 720P. We recently moved from a 50" rplcd to a 58" Panny plasma, so that is certainly part of the P.O.B. formula. But we view at ~12'...and even at that, I find awe in every HD viewing. Thanks to a good friend, we also now own a Toshiba A2, and the PQ is quite noticeably improved.

But you may have hit the nail on the head with your feelings about the Denon. We went from a cheap Panny carousel DVD player to the Tosh. Even upscaled SD discs look much better now using the A2.

I hope you can find a way to get your setup dialed in for the improvement you want.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

For me the difference between VHS and DVD was night & day -- esp. on audio. From the demos that I've seen of BluRay / HD-DVD I haven't been bowled over by the difference. Sure there is a difference and it's noticeable but it is not orders of magnitude better than a really good SD-DVD.

Agreed. My first DVD player was like a whole new world. BD/HD just doesn't seem anywhere remotely as dramatic.

 

[Alamar]

I wonder how much of people's reaction is due to the placebo effect and how much is to a substantial & noticeable difference in quality??

Lossless audio often sounds different from DD5.1 but [I suspect] most of that difference is because there's a totally new / different remix where certain elements are ran hotter or quieter than in the other tracks. I suspect that you'd need good equipment in a good room with a good ear to be able to tell night & day differences in audio IF the mixes were identical and the only difference was because of compression.

As for the video getting 6x the number of dots on the screen is nice & having new codecs is great but with the demos that I've seen the difference is noticeable but simply not earth shaking to me.

Either way if you don't have the equipment to see or hear the difference a lot the bonus value may be wasted.

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Don't get me wrong. When I go BD / HD-DVD I'll be happy for the difference. Your $ does buy an improvement in quality. I just haven't seen or heard enough of a difference so far to think that it's a "quantum leap" over what we have now.

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Devils Advocate: I'm betting in dark scenes BD would rule because of less macroblocking ....

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Agreed. My first DVD player was like a whole new world. BD/HD just doesn't seem anywhere remotely as dramatic.

That coming from from a guy who owns neither Blu-ray or HD-DVD players

Internet expertise at it's finest.

Dewd, you don't even have a HDTV!! (unless you just bought one recently)

 

[j_garcia]

I was not impressed initially by BD either, but the first films I bought were not the best examples. Once I tried a few titles that looked great, I was sold. Going back to SD after watching a number of BD movies showed me that the difference was more than placebo. On certain titles though, there wasn't much to improve. Pan's Labyrinth for example - I didn't find the BD to be a considerable upgrade from the SD DVD upscaled.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

The seating distance: screen size ratio plays a significant role.

IE...if you're sitting across the room from a 34" tube as you are, it should go without saying that any perceptible differences will be marginalized as you continue to move further away from the screen.

 

[j_garcia]

A lot of people seem to make that comment, yet I have no problem seeing the difference at the distance I sit and neither does anyone else. It obviously does become more evidient when one gets closer and less so as you move further away, but at my distance the difference is not subtle with the better titles.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

That coming from from a guy who owns neither Blu-ray or HD-DVD players

Internet expertise at it's finest.

Dewd, you don't even have a HDTV!! (unless you just bought one recently)

How is what I own in any way relevant? I have seen the in-store demos.
Also, I have had a high-definition tube TV for close to 6 years now.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Geno,
As a recent convert to BD I am having similar experiences with some movies (old player was a Denon 2910). However, I wasn't immediately wowed by the BD movies until I rewatched the SD versions. Its not a night and day difference, but there is definately a nice increase in clarity. And I'm finding, as many others have mentioned, that some movies are better/worse than others.

If you haven't done so, try re-calibrating your tv to the new player. I prefer what I'm seeing on BD and the sound is much nicer, IMO. However, if you already have been using higher quality components, the increase may not be as huge for you as for others who are just stepping up to that level.

I'm using a 52" lcd and im about 7.5' back. If I stand right behind the couch, about a foot boack, the clarity on some movies improves dramatically. (moving the couch is not likely with my room layout.) That said, again, I would rather have BD than SD for newer movies. I've still been buying older ones on SD, they're cheaper and the pq difference doesn't seem as noticeable as with newer movies.

Jack

 

[Duffinator]

I guess what I'm trying to say here is, that since I have a pretty decent A-V system, I was not blown away with the differences. Incremental, maybe, but not night & day. Maybe with more experience with the best movies, I might change my mind. (BTW, I did see the POTC trilogy in BD, still not that impressed.)

I can see your point here. Like others have stated there is not nearly the jump in picture quality from DVD to high def DVD as there was from VHS to DVD. It's more subtle for sure. But after watching many HD movies it's difficult for me to watch SD movies. There's no going back for me.

 

[Alamar]

A lot of people seem to make that comment, yet I have no problem seeing the difference at the distance I sit and neither does anyone else. It obviously does become more evidient when one gets closer and less so as you move further away, but at my distance the difference is not subtle with the better titles.

I suspect that people with 20-20 vision would have problems seeing a difference because of the increased number of dots on the screen [resolution]. I think the big gains might be in the highly improved codecs used and the increased bitrates that you can throw at the "trouble" scenes.

Things like macroblocking, artifacting, and other effects of that nature should be detectable at your distance so maybe those are the improvements that you're making reference to???

 

[j_garcia]

I'm talking about color, clarity and detail overall. I use the same calibration for upscaled SD DVD. It isn't a night and day difference, but it is still rather obvious. Same thing for HD DVD - there is added depth to the images when it comes to the best titles. In general, we are also talking about rather significant remasters in some cases - Blade Runner for example, so it isn't just the additional bitrate available, but the transfer itself actually being improved. Not every movie has gone through a big remaster / new transfer, so just adding bitrate from the same print isn't going to make it look much if any better. Case in point: The Fifth Element first release.

 

[mike c]

I honestly cannot distinguish the supposed "better SQ" ... I was not wowed with the PQ either, but if you watch HD and then SD, you begin to realize the improvement. (I agree, it's not equal to the VCD to DVD jump)

 

[rgriffin25]

How is what I own in any way relevant? I have seen the in-store demos.
Also, I have had a high-definition tube TV for close to 6 years now.

I agree that not all HD movies will knock you out of your seat or look noticably better than SD. However, if you watch BD for a while and then go back to SD the difference is quite dramatic. So stating that you have seen in store demos is not proof you are a good source of information regarding this topic. BTW store demos are rarely calibrated so your not even getting close to a good picture.

An observation I have made is that BD / HD DVD look better on the new fixed pixel digital displays (Plasma, LCD, DLP, LCoS) using an HDMI connection. CRT HDTVs do not give you the same pixel for pixel quality you get from these newer TVs. Spend a few hours on a 1080p LCD or DLP watching BD / HD DVD and I am sure all those sitting on the fence would have an easier time jumping in.

 

[Emusica]

If viewing distance is the problem, then he can use the following to determine where he should be sitting:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Man, I guess I need a bigger tv for my viewing distance

 

[obscbyclouds]

An observation I have made is that BD / HD DVD look better on the new fixed pixel digital displays (Plasma, LCD, DLP, LCoS) using an HDMI connection. CRT HDTVs do not give you the same pixel for pixel quality you get from these newer TVs.

I don't really agree with this. BR looks teffiic on my good ol' RP CRT, so much so in fact that i've put off buying a new display for another year or two. The difference between DVD and BR can definately be seen, especially if looking at a well mastered transfer like Spiderman 3 or Casino Royale.

I agree with the others saying that the jump from DVD to BR is nothing like VCR to DVD, which was an enoromous jump in quality. Similar to going from a Cassette Tape to a CD IMO.