brian32672

brian32672

Banned
(Digital) Oh I have just a el-cheapo Minolta DiMage Z2. And it shoots well enough for my needs. But I will say, it does take some killer macro shots. It blows away my friends camera, which at the time he paid 1500.00 for and I beleive it still costs about 1K (pretty sure it was a Nikon, just don't recall the model)

(Film) However I am a little biased on Minolta, I also had a 7000i when it first came out (years ago), and had multiple lenses (superb camera)(with lenses & accs. the total was like 1800). So when I figured I was going to get a digital camera, I had already chosen the manufacture.



BTW, Buckeye has seen some of my pictures un-edited (but re-sized) and he says they looked great.

P.S. Buck, those were all shot at night with very low light, most in full manual mode. And I was not going for perfection, just quick shots...
 
mcwilson

mcwilson

Audioholic
Tried a bunch

We currently have several. I have the Olympus C5060 Widezoom. My wife has the Canon Powershot SD 300 digital Elph. My daughter has the Olympus C7070 Widezoom. They're all great, reasonably priced cameras. The digital elph is the newest, and I got it for my wife because if is basically a point and shoot (few manual options) camera.

I like cnet.com for electronic/computing/hi-tech reviews and pricing information.
 
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claudermilk

Full Audioholic
brian32672 said:
(Film) However I am a little biased on Minolta, I also had a 7000i when it first came out (years ago), and had multiple lenses (superb camera)(with lenses & accs. the total was like 1800). So when I figured I was going to get a digital camera, I had already chosen the manufacture.
I still have mine. :) I hear their new DSLR is great.
 
brian32672

brian32672

Banned
claudermilk said:
I still have mine. :) I hear their new DSLR is great.
That camera actually started me getting very into photography, suberb controls. Excellent full manual mode.
I have a friend that uses 3 1/4 format. And he started teaching me about photography, as well as processing your own pictures in a dark room.

If I ever get a film camera again, I would certainly have the old 7000i at the top of my short list.

BTW, for all. The best place I find for Digital camera reviews including DSLR is Steves Digi cams, he is a great reviewer, very easy to read reviews, but they are complete info on each camera and its modes.....
Link here..http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html
 
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philh

Full Audioholic
brian32672 said:
(Digital) Oh I have just a el-cheapo Minolta DiMage Z2. And it shoots well enough for my needs. But I will say, it does take some killer macro shots.

(Film) However I am a little biased on Minolta, I also had a 7000i when it first came out (years ago), and had multiple lenses (superb camera)(with lenses & accs.
After Dad passed away, I "borrowed" his 7000i. I absolutely love that camera. I now carry an older minolta point and shoot zoom, the 7000i, and a kodak 7300 digital.

Digital camera for those pictures I have to have RIGHT NOW
Point and shoot zoom for travel and marginally critical photos
7000i for the critical pictures. Camera is absolutely amazing.

Going to start playing with field depth, which is probably my biggest disappointment with the 7000i. Also recently having problems with developers. Seattle Film Works used to do a phenomenal job processing and digital scanning. Photo Works is doing a great job scanning, but their processing is color shifted towards green. Found a local shop that did a great job on the processing, but their scanning was messed up, plus they were really expensive.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
brian32672 said:
BTW, for all. The best place I find for Digital camera reviews including DSLR is Steves Digi cams, he is a great reviewer, very easy to read reviews, but they are complete info on each camera and its modes.....
Link here..http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html
The Steve site is basicly a subjective review site. Unfortunately, I don't know of any strictly objective-based review sites. However, both dpreview.com and imaging-resource.com provide alot of raw measurements/data/control test captures, that you can use for your own objective analysis[provided one knows how to properly do such]. Unfortunately, the opinion/review text portion of the reviews on those sites does not seem to often match the quality of the raw data that the provide[and the raw data could also be improved]. So, an independant analysis of the raw data the provide is required, at minimum, for the most accurate conclusion(s).

-Chris
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
Sony just announced a new prosumer digical camera, R1, that uses an APS sized sensor, the same sized sensor like the ones used in DSLRs.

Plus, the new Sony camera incorporates a basic rangefinder design, in that the mirrorbox is eliminated, and the lens is placed really close to the sensor, only 2.1mm separation between the rear of the lens and the sensor. This gives the new Sony R1 much better image quality at wide angle, compared to a DSLR.
 
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claudermilk

Full Audioholic
Most of the review sites are at least mostly based on subjective reviews. I've found Steve's to be pretty accurate & he is thorough in going over the camera. I use his site over DPR (and avoid the DPR forums).


philh said:
After Dad passed away, I "borrowed" his 7000i.
That's how I started--with dad's OM-2 which is sitting next to the 7000i (I have way too much gear).

philh said:
Going to start playing with field depth, which is probably my biggest disappointment with the 7000i.
You mean depth of field? That's determined by you apeture & should be set by you. Slower lenses won't be able to narrow the depth of field as much as faster--that's the big drawback of P&S cameras: their little bitty lenses are all very slow comared to SLRs.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Here's a few pictures from my Canon S400. They may not be the greatest for 8x10's (haven't tried), but they sure print up nice 4x6's.

2005 Detroit Auto Show (we go every year)


An OSU game from '04

Cancun trip '04

 
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brian32672

brian32672

Banned
Nice pics Buck, is that you playing in the sand last year. Doh, your at least 5 by now....
J/K :)
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
claudermilk said:
Most of the review sites are at least mostly based on subjective reviews. I've found Steve's to be pretty accurate & he is thorough in going over the camera. I use his site over DPR (and avoid the DPR forums).
But the sites I referenced have lot of objective/measured data, that can be processes/analyzed, and a conclusion can be made on performance aspects that are not subjective. I don't pay much attention to the actual opinion review text...

You mean depth of field? That's determined by you apeture & should be set by you. Slower lenses won't be able to narrow the depth of field as much as faster--that's the big drawback of P&S cameras: their little bitty lenses are all very slow comared to SLRs.
Actually, the lenses that most buy[like the typical stuff found in your local mall camera shop or circuite city, for example] for their SLRs are 'slow', and usually have rather poor MTF when weighted across the entire frame, especially with telephoto lenses of low cost. Many of the integrated cameras have very 'fast' lenses, and some of them even have superb quality zoom lenses[tack sharp from edge to edge, very little CA, etc.]. The greater DOF of the P&S cameras has to do with the focal length vs. aperature, and the same calculations are used as with SLR lenses to find DOF. But please realize that, for example, a '35 mm' 'effective' focal length on a small integrated cameras is really about 7mm, and the marked or advertised focal length is usually just a SLR equivalent magnification factor. Of course, a true 35mm focal length is going to have a shallower DOF as compared to 7mm, given the same aperature value. The image capture area of the integrated cameras is much smaller than a standard SLR, therefor you effectively magnify the smaller area relative to the focal length, as the image area becomes smaller[imagine it as a cropping effect, to put it roughly]. But in reality, you are using a much shorter focal length with this small 'cropped' area, as would be required to get the equivalent FOV with a SLR's capture area.

Here is a crude example:

35mm full frame capture area:

HHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHH

2/3 standard integrated digital camera capture sensor area:
HHH
HHH

Now imagine printing both of the area examples above on an 8" x 10" sheet, so that each fills the entire area of the sheet. The bottom example is going to be greatly magnified, if both used the same actual focal length; a cropping effect.

So, in effect, the small capture area is 'cropping' to get a magnified effect, making a shorter lens act as a much longer one so far as magnfication. The benefit is that a shorter and lower cost lens can get great reach, and with very bright optics, the con is that it can be more difficult to get the bokeh desired in some cases. Of course, some people prefer the greater DOF, just like some prefer less DOF, so for some it might be a plus.

-Chris
 
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claudermilk

Full Audioholic
I understand all that. The DOF control is part of why I upgraded back to an SLR camera. The larger sensor is also a plus (better noise level), IIRC the Nikon 995 (my old P&S) is about a 4.5x while the 20D that I now use is a 1.6x. Now Canon has the 5D full-frame coming out for less than their 1D 1.3x cameras.

The nice thing about the SLRs is you have a choice of your lens, if a slower, cheaper lens will suffice, then great, if you need faster glass (like I do for low-light, no flash situations), then you have that option. And, of course you get to stop the lens down for the deep DOF as well. I don't recall seeing P&S cameras with f2.8 lenses, much less f1.2 (or the 50/1.0!); as I recall they typically start at f3.5 on the wide end & narrow down fast. Again, for most people doing snapshots that's perfectly acceptable. The downside to all that control is, of course, cost. My lens wishlist will end up costing as much or more than the HT system I've almost finished, being heavily loaded with Canon "L" glass.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
claudermilk said:
The nice thing about the SLRs is you have a choice of your lens, if a slower, cheaper lens will suffice, then great, if you need faster glass (like I do for low-light, no flash situations), then you have that option. And, of course you get to stop the lens down for the deep DOF as well. I don't recall seeing P&S cameras with f2.8 lenses, much less f1.2 (or the 50/1.0!); as I recall they typically start at f3.5 on the wide end & narrow down fast. Again, for most people doing snapshots that's perfectly acceptable. The downside to all that control is, of course, cost. My lens wishlist will end up costing as much or more than the HT system I've almost finished, being heavily loaded with Canon "L" glass.
I am not sure I know what you mean by 'P&S'. But some of the integrated cameras have bright zooms[Sony F828 has a f2.0-f2.8 through it's zoom range for example]. Perhaps you are talking about the compact cameras. As far as noise being an issue, that is dependant on the ISO requirements you have. Some modern integrated camera examples don't real noise problems up to ISO200. Personally, I don't even need anything as fast as ISO100 for 99% of my applications. It just happens that a small sensor camera is better suited for my purposes[and I prefer the features/functions on certain integrated cameras as compared to a [d]SLR system]. And recently Fuji has developed a small sensor/processor that aproaches the low noise at high ISO of a DSLR -- though they have only used this in a P&S pocket camera[Fuji model F10] as of this point. The DOF issue, again, is about preference. The small sensor cameras have the capability to do a deep DOF with a large aperature setting, and the size/weight of a very high quality lens can be drastically reduced. [D]SLR systems are suited to those that need the specific advantages[such as very high ISO, interchangeable lens system for special applications, or very narrow DOF in specific conditions that would not be possible with a small sensor device, etc.].

-Chris
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
Plus, with a DSLR, if you want to shoot anything low on the ground (such as macro flower shots), you'll really hurt your back :)
 
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claudermilk

Full Audioholic
P&S = Point & Shoot.

That F828 is kind of in between a P&S and SLR. That's pretty nice that it has that fast of a lens--I missed that glancing at it's specs the other day. The market changes so fast it's hard to keep up sometimes.

Admittedly my requirements for low noise is pretty picky as I tend to shoot in low light without flash a lot, so I use the heck out of the ISO 3200 capability my 20D gives me.

As you have mentioned, the choice of camera is highly dependent on individual requirements.

BTW, for low-level shot on a DSLR, use an anglefinder attachment. Not as convenient as some P&S--the rotating body on my 995 has come in handy a number of times.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
Take a look at the new Sony R1. Large sensor in a prosumer point and shoot. Very good image qualities from a pre-production model. There is a preview on www.dpreview.com


I for one don't like to change lenses. If you have the option to change lenses, you always have the temptation to purchase more and more expensive lenses. And good lenses cost a bundle.


I have had a Sony F717 for a long time, and I have been perfectly content with it. Except for the noise issue at high ISO. Now the new R1 has a larger sensor that solves the high ISO noise issue, comparable to what is found in entry level DSLRs, I'm looking to purchase another Sony again.
 
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hopjohn

Full Audioholic
Not to say that any of you fall in this category, but it has been my experience that people would rather buy a fancy expensive camera, and never really learn how to use it to its full potential. I bought a point and shoot Canon Powershot A20 2.1MP 4 years ago that can take better pics than most peoples 6MP photos because they have no clue. My advice is to learn how to best use what you already own, and buy only when you've truly outgrown what you have.
 

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claudermilk

Full Audioholic
That's the best advice & what I usually give. It's even what I did; I stuck with my Nikon 995 until I started running up against it's limitations, then switched to DSLR. I have only added the 50/1.8 prime so far and have a very specific list of lenses to get eventually, then I'm done. Just like with HT, the trick to to avoid getting into upgradeitis and throwing more dollars than sense at it. You hear about as many guys whi have gone out & bought, say, a Canon 1DsMkII (the current nee plus ultra DSLR of their line), and $10k worth of lenses and can't even get a decent snapshot out of all that as we find here that have spent $100k on badly-matched audio that makes your ears bleed. It's kind of sad how many people who the price tag is the most important part.
 
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