Digital audio from new LG HDTV - what type?

[sonicman]

Hi all - don't visit that often unless I'm updating and have questions - just belong to so many forums that it is hard to keep up; so sorry if this question may have been answered?

But I just upgraded from my old 32" CRT SDTV to a new LG 42" HDTV (LV5500) - really enjoying, but had a question concerning the audio output of this TV - the only option is a digital optical Toslink - previously I had RCA audio cables attached to my den stereo - thus 'how' can I obtain a converter for this connection.

Now searching Amazon, there are plenty of digital-analog converters available but the audio standards seemed to be an issue; e.g. one that looked ideal only translated in PCM code - I did a chat on the LG website, and was told that the digital audio for my new TV was AC3 Dolby - the manual is of no use.

Bottom line - can I buy an inexpensive converter to get audio from this new TV to my stereo receiver (older NAD w/o optical connections)? As you all know the sound from these THIN LCD TVs leaves much to be desired - thus my only options are to try to get the sound to my stereo or purchased another sound system, such as a soundbar to achieve my goal - any comments, help, etc. would be greatly appreciated - thanks! Dave

 

[MDS]

Sure you can buy an external DAC to get analog audio to your stereo, but you really shouldn't have to. I haven't looked up the exact LG model you have, but it would be pretty strange if it didn't have analog audio outs.

Some of the latest very thin LCDs have resorted to using 3.5 mm stereo mini outputs, but that is fine if you go to Radio Shack and spend less than $5 for a stereo mini to 2 RCA cable. The TV may even have come with a cable of that type.

 

[Adam]

Unfortunately, MDS, some TVs don't have any analog audio output at all. You make a good point, though - those headphone outputs can be easy to miss.

sonicman, what model did you buy? Oh, and btw, excellent upgrade!

 

[markw]

Two answers here.

I do know tnhat many new TV's don't offer analog outputs. Check your manual carefully in case MDS is correct. That would make your life much simpler.

AC3 is the standard for a digital signal generated by the TV's internal ATSC tuner from OTA TV signals.

However, any other sources plugged into the TV will be downconverted to two channel stereo and passed via the optical link in PCM.

If you don't mind that then you could use that optical link to your receiver.

Of course, I could always be wrong.

 

[sonicman]

Sure you can buy an external DAC to get analog audio to your stereo, but you really shouldn't have to. I haven't looked up the exact LG model you have, but it would be pretty strange if it didn't have analog audio outs.

Some of the latest very thin LCDs have resorted to using 3.5 mm stereo mini outputs, but that is fine if you go to Radio Shack and spend less than $5 for a stereo mini to 2 RCA cable. The TV may even have come with a cable of that type.

Thanks all for your responses - the LG model was given in my OP (i.e. 42LV5500) - the only audio output seems to be the digital optical one mentioned, i.e. a Toslink connection.

Now in the package were two adapters w/ mini connections, i.e. one for component video & the other for composite video but these are only 'input' connections - can't see a headphone connector but will look - this would obviously work for me.

So, I'm still in a quandary - would love a cheap converter compatible w/ my new TV vs. buying a $3-$5 hundred dollar soundbar - would love to hear from those who may have 'solved' this problem w/ the same or a similar TV - just don't understand why these converters should not function in a number of audio formats? Thanks again - Dave

 

[Adam]

...the LG model was given in my OP (i.e. 42LV5500)...

Oops, missed that.

If I'm reading it right, there is a headphone jack on the bottom right corner of the TV's rear panel (next to the AV IN 2 connections). You can use that with the adapter that MDS mentioned to connect to your stereo.

If you haven't seen one, they look like this:

 

[sonicman]

Oops, missed that.

If I'm reading it right, there is a headphone jack on the bottom right corner of the TV's rear panel (next to the AV IN 2 connections). You can use that with the adapter that MDS mentioned to connect to your stereo.

If you haven't seen one, they look like this:

Hi Adam - thanks! I'll have to check the manual that came w/ this TV but not sure that was even mentioned (downloaded the online guide which seems to have more info) - BUT, I just took a look and indeed there is the headphone jack present (and barely visible) - plugged in a set of phones and could hear the sound (disables the TV's speaker as one would suspect).

I attached this connection using the device below which I had and a set of RCA cables - I then turned on my stereo's video attachment and had to turn up the sound to max for a decent level (same w/ the TV, i.e. the maximum volume is rather low, a major irritation to me) - not sure that I'll be happy w/ that choice but GREAT to know that it is available!

Now, I also have an RCA output from my new Blu-ray Sony player w/ the audio attached to the same video input jacks of my stereo and I can get a LOT more sound when playing a DVD from that new player - guess the sound output from the TV vs. the Blu-ray player are just different and that the headphone connection on the TV mirrors the TV sound output w/ these flat panel TVs?

SO, again thanks for that option found w/ headphones; it does work but the sound level is just low even w/ my stereo turned to MAX - not sure why these TV manufacturers provide such a LOW sound level output?

But, I'd still like to explore that optical Toslink connection if I can find the right converter - will the sound level be better? I don't know - other than the sound, this is really a GREAT TV - for the last 2 nights I've been playing DVDs burned from a DVR off the TCM channel; now these are 50-60+ yrs old (and likely no better than 480i resolution) - well w/ this Sony Blu-ray player & the new TV, the images are upscaled to the entire size on the TV image, the detail is amazing and almost 3D - truly phenomenal having watch these 'home-made' DVDs many times on an old CRT TV!

Thanks all for your help - any 'Soundbars' that may work nicely w/ this digital connection @ a good price - Dave

 

[Adam]

I'm glad that it worked! Although, clearly, not perfect.

I just want to make sure that I read your post correctly - did you have the volume on the TV itself turned up when you were using the headphone jack? I would think that at max volume on the TV, that headphone jack should act basically like a line-level audio output (the L/R RCA jacks that you were using before).

If you did, and that headphone output signal is just pretty low, you could also look into getting a headphone amp. That would amplify the signal coming from that headphone jack before it gets to your NAD, which would make the sound louder.

Before spending much money, though, you might want to put a new receiver on the list of options. You can get one with all the new audio codecs (for your blu-rays), optical inputs, and a lot more for about $200.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks all for your responses - the LG model was given in my OP (i.e. 42LV5500) - the only audio output seems to be the digital optical one mentioned, i.e. a Toslink connection.

Now in the package were two adapters w/ mini connections, i.e. one for component video & the other for composite video but these are only 'input' connections - can't see a headphone connector but will look - this would obviously work for me.

So, I'm still in a quandary - would love a cheap converter compatible w/ my new TV vs. buying a $3-$5 hundred dollar soundbar - would love to hear from those who may have 'solved' this problem w/ the same or a similar TV - just don't understand why these converters should not function in a number of audio formats? Thanks again - Dave

I have had a look at your manual and I agree it is not the best.

Make sure your TV volume is turned up. I have calculated the max voltage at your headphone output from the specs in the manual. If your TV was turned up full then the max output would be 400 mv, which is a little shy, as line voltage should be a volt. So yes, you might experience low output, but I would not have thought you would have had to turn the volume up full.

It does not state the type of signal at the Toslink output, however if LG support are correct, then a cheap converter will not work. Dolby AC3 is 5.1 and no converters except a receiver will convert that.

Now a lot of TVs output two channel PCM at the optical out, but not all do. For two channel PCM at converter like this will be fine.

I see nothing in the manual about you being able to select two channel PCM at the optical out.

Worse, I suspect that the Toslink out is 5.1, as that output is copyright protected. I don't think they would have to put DRM on a two channel PCM out. So if a program is ACP (Audio copyright protected) then there will be no output at that Toslink connector and you will have no audio.

It seems to me that there is a forcing to go to receivers or pre pros with modern TVs. This trend seems to be picking up.

I site small down firing speakers and even TV speakers facing the wall!

Issues of compatibility and DRM as in your case are on the increase. There is increased forcing of HDMI, for reasons of DRM I believe.

So my best advice is to get a receiver with HDMI. Don't buy a cheap one. Go to the mid range of a line at least, if you don't want the unit to be on the fast track to the recycling center.

 

[rgriffin25]

There are D/A converters that work well for this. Gefen made one for awhile that would take a 5.1 digital signal and convert it to 2ch analog. We have sold several of these to older customers who want to use wireless headphones. It is a huge oversight in my opinion by LG and others to not include an analog audio output.
Gefen had 2 models one that would convert 2ch digital to 2ch analog which sold for around $79.95. The 5.1 / 2.0 converter was around $129.95. Check this link Amazon.com: GefenTV Digital Audio Decoder: Electronics

 

[TLS Guy]

There are D/A converters that work well for this. Gefen made one for awhile that would take a 5.1 digital signal and convert it to 2ch analog. We have sold several of these to older customers who want to use wireless headphones. It is a huge oversight in my opinion by LG and others to not include an analog audio output.
Gefen had 2 models one that would convert 2ch digital to 2ch analog which sold for around $79.95. The 5.1 / 2.0 converter was around $129.95. Check this link Amazon.com: GefenTV Digital Audio Decoder: Electronics

The problem is that Gefen unit is discontinued. I think that amount of money is better put to a receiver.

The next issue is DRM. It is not much good if that Toslink out works on some programs and not others.

I suspect that on of the reasons the Gefen is not available is because of DRM. The studios have been getting very aggressive about digital to analog stand alone converters.

Trust me TVs are going to become a bigger and bigger mess for the consumer that wants basic functions from a TV, especially if they want to use them with legacy equipment.

 

[Adam]

I think that amount of money is better put to a receiver.

Agreed. Both have their pros and cons, but you can buy a receiver in that price range if all your looking for is an optical input, DD 5.1 decoding, and stereo analog outputs.

 

[sonicman]

Hi Guys - thanks for the additional responses and the explanations. At the moment I'm out of town for a few days so cannot do anymore testing until Monday.

But I may have not had the LG TV volume adjusted correctly when I attached to my stereo via the analog outs from the headphone jack - that will be the first item to re-check when I return - may still be a go?

The first adapter link (for about $20+) given is the one I was considering on Amazon until reading some of the comments there which mentioned that only PCM output from the TV would be converted to analog. The second link to the Geffen looks like it would work, but $90 or so.

I was also looking at a number of soundbars on Amazon and at Crutchfield (where I bought the LG TV - have some credit now and probably could get a small discount?) - unfortunately the one that really was of interest, i.e. Boston-Acoustics-TVee-Model-30, is listed there for $600 - OUCH! Plus, I'm not sure how it would hook up to the LG TV - getting more confusing!

But thanks again all for your responses - any comments on that BA soundbar hooking up to this TV would be appreciated, but again I'll check out that headphone jack again on Monday.

 

[sonicman]

Well, returned home a few hours ago, and I was able to re-test the headphone output of the LG TV - had the TV's volume up all of the way and still did NOT get a more powerful signal into my stereo; so I would probably need some type of amplifying converter for that connection?

Again when I connect the accessory analog audio RCA jacks from my new Blu-ray player to the same input on the stereo, the sound works fine which is good, i.e. I can listen to CD/SACD/DVD on the stereo.

So I guess my options in addition to the one listed above are: 1) a new receiver w/ optical inputs that will decode Dolby AC3 (my current receiver is a NAD C740 which is still working fine); 2) Toslink converter which will get me from AC3 to analog (not much available and not inexpensive but probably the cheapest option?); and 3) Soundbar that will input the Dolby AC3 (another expense but I do have the room for the ones that I've reviewed).

Thanks again for all of the input - Dave

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, returned home a few hours ago, and I was able to re-test the headphone output of the LG TV - had the TV's volume up all of the way and still did NOT get a more powerful signal into my stereo; so I would probably need some type of amplifying converter for that connection?

Again when I connect the accessory analog audio RCA jacks from my new Blu-ray player to the same input on the stereo, the sound works fine which is good, i.e. I can listen to CD/SACD/DVD on the stereo.

So I guess my options in addition to the one listed above are: 1) a new receiver w/ optical inputs that will decode Dolby AC3 (my current receiver is a NAD C740 which is still working fine); 2) Toslink converter which will get me from AC3 to analog (not much available and not inexpensive but probably the cheapest option?); and 3) Soundbar that will input the Dolby AC3 (another expense but I do have the room for the ones that I've reviewed).

Thanks again for all of the input - Dave

Since that Toslink is Audio Copy protected, it will be of little use. It will be very annoying.

Either change the TV, or get a decent receiver. Then connect everything to the receiver, and just one HDMI cable from receiver to TV.

Your problem highlights that there is a forcing of this solution with a lot of modern TVs.

The reason, is the manufacturers are scared of expensive law suits from the studios. The receiver manufacturers have already paid their license fees for DRM and the HDCP codes, which is part and parcel of HDMI.

The reason for your problem, is not electronics but lawyers.

 

[lsiberian]

Well, returned home a few hours ago, and I was able to re-test the headphone output of the LG TV - had the TV's volume up all of the way and still did NOT get a more powerful signal into my stereo; so I would probably need some type of amplifying converter for that connection?

Again when I connect the accessory analog audio RCA jacks from my new Blu-ray player to the same input on the stereo, the sound works fine which is good, i.e. I can listen to CD/SACD/DVD on the stereo.

So I guess my options in addition to the one listed above are: 1) a new receiver w/ optical inputs that will decode Dolby AC3 (my current receiver is a NAD C740 which is still working fine); 2) Toslink converter which will get me from AC3 to analog (not much available and not inexpensive but probably the cheapest option?); and 3) Soundbar that will input the Dolby AC3 (another expense but I do have the room for the ones that I've reviewed).

Thanks again for all of the input - Dave

It may be time to move on bud. You could use your old receiver as an amp or a music only setup.

 

[sonicman]

Well Guys - I really LOVE these posts to either get rid of my new equipment (HDTV in this case) and/or replace virtually all of my stereo equipment - really not reasonable and helpful - I'm 65 y/o and don't know how much more time I have on this planet, so should be a consideration in making your recommendations; if I were 30 yrs younger, then my plans would certainly be different - just a thought when you presumed youngsters respond -

Concerning my current situation for those who may be interested or may have the same situation, I had 2 problems to solve: 1) Sound - as noted in my previous posts, the new HDTV had POOR sound, so I decided to purchase a Boston Acoustics soundbar/wireless sub (Model TVee 30) - rather pricey but sounds great for my needs; so happy in that decision; 2) HDMI - attached my 3 HDMI cables to my Time Warner cable box, Sony Blu-ray player, and Roku device - problem w/ loss of sound which seemed to be related to the cable box (HDCP issue?) - contacted LG TV, Crutchfield, & TW cable - which suggested that I just switch cables out & experiment; obviously no specific advice.

After giving the above HDMI attempts, I finally just connected the cable box to my TV via a component cable (and the additional 2 audio RCA connections - I don't need Dolby 5.1 digital so not an issue for me) - well all seems to be working well - I'm watching some new Blu-ray discs tonight and can get the digital channels on my cable box - satisfied at the moment.

Again, thanks for all of your comments and appreciate the GREAT experience & knowledge available on this site - I'm sure the I will be back soon w/ other issues - Dave

 

[TLS Guy]

Well Guys - I really LOVE these posts to either get rid of my new equipment (HDTV in this case) and/or replace virtually all of my stereo equipment - really not reasonable and helpful - I'm 65 y/o and don't know how much more time I have on this planet, so should be a consideration in making your recommendations; if I were 30 yrs younger, then my plans would certainly be different - just a thought when you presumed youngsters respond -

Concerning my current situation for those who may be interested or may have the same situation, I had 2 problems to solve: 1) Sound - as noted in my previous posts, the new HDTV had POOR sound, so I decided to purchase a Boston Acoustics soundbar/wireless sub (Model TVee 30) - rather pricey but sounds great for my needs; so happy in that decision; 2) HDMI - attached my 3 HDMI cables to my Time Warner cable box, Sony Blu-ray player, and Roku device - problem w/ loss of sound which seemed to be related to the cable box (HDCP issue?) - contacted LG TV, Crutchfield, & TW cable - which suggested that I just switch cables out & experiment; obviously no specific advice.

After giving the above HDMI attempts, I finally just connected the cable box to my TV via a component cable (and the additional 2 audio RCA connections - I don't need Dolby 5.1 digital so not an issue for me) - well all seems to be working well - I'm watching some new Blu-ray discs tonight and can get the digital channels on my cable box - satisfied at the moment.

Again, thanks for all of your comments and appreciate the GREAT experience & knowledge available on this site - I'm sure the I will be back soon w/ other issues - Dave

Glad you got sorted out. However, I don't like you putting it about that us 65 year old members can't use current technology with benefit. I'm 65 also, and I hope I will enjoy this technology for many years to come.

I suspect your Cable box issue, is because its audio is audio protected. If it is only audio and not video that could be the problem. Did you make sure the HDMI output was enabled on your cable box? They all have to be enabled, that would be another reason why you had no audio.

I still think a receiver would have been a better solution and more flexible. You could have bought a capable one, for the cost of the side bar.

Your sound bar is 3.1, and you can not get that from your current audio hook up from your cable box.

If you run into a disc that is audio protected, which with the passage of time is increasingly likely, you will again have no audio.