Difference in sub levels

[jeffsg4mac]

Hey guys what are your thoughts on this? When I listen to music either high res two or multi channel or just CDs the subs seem like they are set too low. Raising them up exactly 10db seems to be perfect. Put on a concert or movie and you have to put it back down to the calibrated setting. This was an issue or still is between movie sound tracks DD/DTS and audio if I remember correct. Is this something they still have not corrected? It is hard to find a definitive answer to this.

Or am I totally wrong on this and I just don't like the calibrated sub level? I would think my Onkyo would be handling the bass management correctly between sources.

 

[j_garcia]

SACD and DVD-A are not mastered the same as movies. DD/DTS tracks have a built in 10dB adjustment on the LFE channel that is accounted for in the decoding process. Since this doesn't exist for SACD and DVD-A, as you've already found, you get exactly that -10dB offset. This has been around since SACD and DVD-A came out.

What player are you using? The early players were not able to compensate for this, but after a few generations, many players had a setting for this when playing SACD or DVD-A. I know my Denon 2900 did not, but my 2200 did even though they came out the same year and the 2900 was a higher model. My solution for the 2900 was simple - add the offset in my receiver's 7.1 channel setup and CDs and movies were listened to via digital so they would utilize the receiver's bass management.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I do have a 2200 but today I was listening to Tom Petty's Mojo on Blu-ray with the DTS MA track. It seems to be the case with this recording as well. If I turn off the sub and set speakers to full range I have all the low end. If I set them back to 80hz sub on I need to raise the setting to sound to me what seems correct. Same for CD either with the blu-ray or PCM stream from my macbook.

 

[j_garcia]

Meaning the LFE channel was too low or too high? I don't have any BD-A titles, so I can't comment there, but I'd suspect it would be the same issue, since the core is still dd/dts for DD+, TrueHD and dts-hdma.

If you look in the settings for the 2200, there will be a setting for +10dB for hirez audio (I forget where in the menu, but it should be obvious when you see it), so you don't have to adjust it on the receiver side and it won't affect other devices.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Meaning the LFE channel was too low or too high? I don't have any BD-A titles, so I can't comment there, but I'd suspect it would be the same issue, since the core is still dd/dts for DD+, TrueHD and dts-hdma.

If you look in the settings for the 2200, there will be a setting for +10dB for hirez audio (I forget where in the menu, but it should be obvious when you see it).

It seemed to low and raising it 10 seems to be correct. Same for CD audio too. Can this be correct or am just not liking the calibrated setting? It really seems way too low.

Edit: Ok I have checked a bunch of different 2 channel music and with this receiver the calibrated setting is to low. Raising it 10 puts it correct. No bigee now that I know it. I honestly thought there was something wrong with my sub design, and if that was the case how come on movies they kick @ss? It didn't make sense.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Luckily the Onkyo has a sub level adjustment that reverts back to calibrated setting when powered off. For music I raise it then when I shut off and come back it is back where it needs to be.

 

[Alex2507]

If you look in the settings for the 2200, there will be a setting for +10dB for hirez audio ...

Hmmm ... I guess I really should have read the manual. I never did see that in the on screen menu though. The manual on my DVD 1920 isn't too thick but it's undecipherable without MDS so the thick 2200 manual just frightens me.

 

[j_garcia]

It is hard to say if it is a problem or if you just don't like the way it sounds, but if you calibrate and it sounds too low, then that may just be the case. I typically raise mine up 1-2dB also, because I like it better for lower level listening, but when I crank it, I drop it back down. 10dB sounds like a lot from calibrated plus the fact that you say it is exactly 10dB, which is why I think it is the issue I mentioned. I don't see a manual for the 2200 in the archive, but I know I discussed it with someone else previously on this forum.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

It is hard to say if it is a problem or if you just don't like the way it sounds, but if you calibrate and it sounds too low, then that may just be the case. I typically raise mine up 1-2dB also, because I like it better for lower level listening, but when I crank it, I drop it back down. 10dB sounds like a lot from calibrated plus the fact that you say it is exactly 10dB, which is why I think it is the issue I mentioned. I don't see a manual for the 2200 in the archive, but I know I discussed it with someone else previously on this forum.

I think that is exactly what it is. Movies sound fine at the calibrated level and so do concerts. In fact if you raise it the 10 on while listening to them you can instantly tell it is set to high. With music set at calibrated levels it sounds like the subs are not even on. Raise it 10 and bam it is right there.

 

[timoteo]

Thats funny i never thought to post on this topic but i have had the same experience. With music i turn my subs on their dial from the calibrated spot of 50% up to 75%. Not sure what that 25% increase would equate to on the reciever trim but they definately need a boost from the movie level. An increase on the subs really makes CDs & Rhapsody music sound great!

 

[j_garcia]

That's one reason why I have my setup on the receiver side dialed in hotter than what I use for multichannel analog on the Oppo. When I want a little bump in bass without changing anything, I switch over to digital.