difference between av preamp and av receiver

[Gavilan355]

I tried searching for this on the forum but I couldnt find an answer. I am new to all this and Im trying to make a nice home theater set in my basement.

I bought an av receiver, Denon avr 4310. its a $2000 receiver, 130W/ch. I thought that this would do the job, but the more I look in forums, I see that people have either a receiver with a preamp, or two receivers. I want to know why, also if i could connect speakers to a preamp, then why would I need a receiver if a preamp can also decode dolby true HD and DTD HD. I;m really confused and would want your help. what do I need to get to have a decent HT, I already have a receiver, I will most likely get the PSB Image t6 5.1 set. do I need a preamp or is the denon 4310c good enough.

also if I get a preamp and a receiver, how do I use both of them, like Ive read that a guy had some amp, but used the receiver do decode. what does that mean?

thanks

 

[markw]

An AV receiver is basically a preamp (or preamp/processor (or pre/pro) to be more exact) with a built-in tuner on one side and built-in power amplifiers for each channel on the other side.

A stereo receiver/ stereo preamp is the same, except without a processor stage.

You cannot connect speakers directly to a preamp or a pre/pro. You need power amplifiers.

A receiver contains all you need in one handy box and performs quite well for most people.

 

[3db]

Like Markw stated, a AV receiver contains a pre-amp at the inputs where you connect the "audio outs" from other sources such as DVD players, CD players etc and an amplifier section where you connect your loudspeakers to. There's a tuner thrown in hence the word receiver, and also some video preocesssing and scaling,,,that's the "V" in AVR.

Some AVRs lack a phono preamp which is required if you have a turntable and play records. I beleive yoru receiver does have a phono pre-amp as well so you are all set.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Denon 4310 is an awesome preamp and may put some "pre-pro" to shame.

It most likely has plenty of power to spare, but you can use it as a pre-pro and hook it up to an external amp if necessary.

The Denon 4310 is a great pre-pro, although it is a "AV Receiver".

 

[Gavilan355]

thanks guys, is there any other equiptment I could buy to make it sound better.

 

[LAB3]

Your Denon has enough power to play your speakers just fine. I did not see the sub that goes to your 5.1 but that being said would be the only thing from what you have listed that might make this a better sounding 5.1 system for movies. Unless you purchase different speakers, not there is anything wrong with what you have. Just trying to answer your question about making it sound better.

 

[Rickster71]

Since you haven't heard your speaker & Denon system yet; I'd give it a listen first. I don't think you'll need anything else, unless you have a really big listening area with high ceilings.
You have a nice system there, give it a chance.

 

[Gavilan355]

Your Denon has enough power to play your speakers just fine. I did not see the sub that goes to your 5.1 but that being said would be the only thing from what you have listed that might make this a better sounding 5.1 system for movies. Unless you purchase different speakers, not there is anything wrong with what you have. Just trying to answer your question about making it sound better.

I have a definitive technology pro sub 1000, so far that sub is good, but im thinking of also adding a HSU sub aswell.

 

[lsiberian]

I have a definitive technology pro sub 1000, so far that sub is good, but im thinking of also adding a HSU sub aswell.

You don't normally want to mix different type subs. Even a cheap sub well placed can make great sound.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hey, you know, DenPureSound and I just ordered the BIC PL-200 subwoofer for $279 each, which was designed by HSU Research.

This thing can produce 110dB @ 30Hz. It weighs ~ 50lbs.

 

[bmurphy2121]

I kinda have the same question as Gavilan355 too. Ive been reading around here for a bit and am also unsure about this. My prob is is that it seems like I really have to turn my system up to be really in the movie. What I mean by this it seems that to have a great surround sound experience I really have to crank up the sound. I have also done the mic thing were is does the listing and sets up your distance and speaker size stuff several times but it still seems to not sound that great. I know I have a good set up but I keep having trouble getting the best for my system. I was also wondering if I needed more watts per channel or maybe a new AVR? My system is as follows. Pioneer Elite VSX-81- TXV RECEIVER, for speakers there all Def Tech. Center channel c/l/r 2002, fronts bp7002, rear bpx, and sub is super cube I. If I dont need anything else is there a trick for setting up the system to make it louder/sound better? Thanks in advance.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I kinda have the same question as Gavilan355 too. Ive been reading around here for a bit and am also unsure about this. My prob is is that it seems like I really have to turn my system up to be really in the movie. What I mean by this it seems that to have a great surround sound experience I really have to crank up the sound. I have also done the mic thing were is does the listing and sets up your distance and speaker size stuff several times but it still seems to not sound that great. I know I have a good set up but I keep having trouble getting the best for my system. I was also wondering if I needed more watts per channel or maybe a new AVR? My system is as follows. Pioneer Elite VSX-81- TXV RECEIVER, for speakers there all Def Tech. Center channel c/l/r 2002, fronts bp7002, rear bpx, and sub is super cube I. If I dont need anything else is there a trick for setting up the system to make it louder/sound better? Thanks in advance.

Those DT BP speakers are very efficient; they usually sound loud.

Did you use the automatic room correction/EQ?

Or manual setup?

Are all the channels level matched? What are they set to on the Receiver? 0dB, or -2dB, ???

Did you turn off all the EQ (room EQ, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, DSP)?

Also pull the BP7002 away fom the front walls by 18" - 24".

 

[bmurphy2121]

Did you use the automatic room correction/EQ?
Yes I set the MIC up where my normal listing spot is.

Or manual setup?
No

Are all the channels level matched?
Not sure what you mean

What are they set to on the Receiver? 0dB, or -2dB, ???
Im not sure how can I check?

Did you turn off all the EQ (room EQ, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, DSP)?
How do I turn all that stuff off?
If Im running the automatic set up wont that automaticaly turn that stuff on/off if needed?

Also pull the BP7002 away fom the front walls by 18" - 24".
The speakers are away from wall about 18"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Did you use the automatic room correction/EQ?
Yes I set the MIC up where my normal listing spot is.

Or manual setup?
No

Are all the channels level matched?
Not sure what you mean

What are they set to on the Receiver? 0dB, or -2dB, ???
Im not sure how can I check?

Did you turn off all the EQ (room EQ, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, DSP)?
How do I turn all that stuff off?
If Im running the automatic set up wont that automaticaly turn that stuff on/off if needed?

Also pull the BP7002 away fom the front walls by 18" - 24".
The speakers are away from wall about 18"

I HATE room correction, EQ, DSP!!!!

They have always made my speakers (Def Tech, Orion, etc.) sound BAD, BAD, BAD.

You can turn off all EQs by remote or on the unit or by going into the menu and turning it off.

If I were you, I would just turn OFF room EQ and all EQ, go to speaker manual setup and set all Speaker Channel Levels to 0dB.

Are you hooking the BP7002 with speaker wire only? or Using the LFE for internal subs?

Some people recommend setting them to Small, connect speaker wire for the tweeters/midrange, and then use the LFE input for subs.

But first thing, turn off all EQs and reset all channel levels to 0dB.

 

[bmurphy2121]

I HATE room correction, EQ, DSP!!!!

They have always made my speakers (Def Tech, Orion, etc.) sound BAD, BAD, BAD.

You can turn off all EQs by remote or on the unit or by going into the menu and turning it off.

If I were you, I would just turn OFF room EQ and all EQ, go to speaker manual setup and set all Speaker Channel Levels to 0dB.

Are you hooking the BP7002 with speaker wire only? or Using the LFE for internal subs?

Some people recommend setting them to Small, connect speaker wire for the tweeters/midrange, and then use the LFE input for subs.

But first thing, turn off all EQs and reset all channel levels to 0dB.

Yes I know what you mean about the speakers sounding BAD. Before I had this set up I had a set of Mirage speakers and they sounded great using the auto set up. So I thought that by getting an even better set up that I would be blown away but so for I am not even though I know the speakers have so much more potential. Ive had these speakers for awhile now and I what you said will work. Im really wanting to be blown away by them.

Yes Im hooking up the BP7002 with just wire no LFE at all. I only have one LFE output and Im using that for the sub.

Do you think by setting them to small will make them sound better?
How can I hook them up using the LFE if Im already using it for the sub?
I will try to reset the system using what you said and see if that sounds any better.
Thanks for all your help.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you think by setting them to small will make them sound better?

How can I hook them up using the LFE if Im already using it for the sub?

I think trial-and-error is the name of the game.

One experiment is setting the BP7002 to small, Crossover @ 80Hz.

Get 2 Y-cable. The 1Male-2Female type like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Raptor-NBRCA-Y2-0-5-Feet-Female-Adaptor/dp/B0002EXFCY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1310447106&sr=1-1

Now your single Sub output becomes three: connect one Y-cable to your AVR sub output, then connect the second Y-cable to the firt Y-cable.

Then connect 3 cabes to the subs: SC1, and both BP7002s LFE inputs.

Start by setting all 3 subs to 50% volume (12 o'clock) on back of each sub/BP7002.

On the AVR now level match all channels manually using a digital SPL meter to 75dB-C weight, slow response.

If you don't have a SPL meter, then just run automatic calibration. But afterwards, turn off the EQ completely. The calibration will set the channel levels for you. But you have to manually set the speakers to small and crossover to 80Hz manually.

 

[bmurphy2121]

I think trial-and-error is the name of the game.

One experiment is setting the BP7002 to small, Crossover @ 80Hz.

Get 2 Y-cable. The 1Male-2Female type like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Raptor-NBRCA-Y2-0-5-Feet-Female-Adaptor/dp/B0002EXFCY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1310447106&sr=1-1

Now your single Sub output becomes three: connect one Y-cable to your AVR sub output, then connect the second Y-cable to the firt Y-cable.

Then connect 3 cabes to the subs: SC1, and both BP7002s LFE inputs.

Start by setting all 3 subs to 50% volume (12 o'clock) on back of each sub/BP7002.

On the AVR now level match all channels manually using a digital SPL meter to 75dB-C weight, slow response.

If you don't have a SPL meter, then just run automatic calibration. But afterwards, turn off the EQ completely. The calibration will set the channel levels for you. But you have to manually set the speakers to small and crossover to 80Hz manually.

I have thought of doing this before I just thought that if I uses the 2 Y-cables I would loose some bass because of having 3 subs connected to one sub input on AVR or will it not matter at all? OK Ill try that and see what happens.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have thought of doing this before I just thought that if I uses the 2 Y-cables I would loose some bass because of having 3 subs connected to one sub input on AVR or will it not matter at all? OK Ill try that and see what happens.

As long as the cables are good quality, there should not be any loss of quality.

The main thing is all 3 subs are producing the exact same amount of bass.

How can you do this?

When you channel level match, turn 2 of the subs off at a time. Measure one sub at a time using a SPL meter and make sure each sub is producing the same level (like 75dBC, which is the same level as your front L/R/C/Surrounds).

 

[bmurphy2121]

As long as the cables are good quality, there should not be any loss of quality.

The main thing is all 3 subs are producing the exact same amount of bass.

How can you do this?

When you channel level match, turn 2 of the subs off at a time. Measure one sub at a time using a SPL meter and make sure each sub is producing the same level (like 75dBC, which is the same level as your front L/R/C/Surrounds).

As of now I do not have a SPL meter but planning on getting one any certain one I need to get?

Next dumb question since I dont have/used a SPL meter do I have to be a certain distance away from each speaker or do I just need to be where I would normally sit and then run the test?

Sorry for all the dumb question Im trying to learn on how to do this because as I have stated before Ive only used the auto calc way.

 

[LAB3]

As of now I do not have a SPL meter but planning on getting one any certain one I need to get?

Next dumb question since I dont have/used a SPL meter do I have to be a certain distance away from each speaker or do I just need to be where I would normally sit and then run the test?

Sorry for all the dumb question Im trying to learn on how to do this because as I have stated before Ive only used the auto calc way.

Radio Shack has a hand held SPL meter for under 50 bucks.Just read the small owners manual(two pages). I use it lot when

we are playing a new Bluray movie I get "InTo" it and keep turning up the volume so I use the meter to make sure I am not damaging my ears anymore then they are now. It's easy to use and just play with. Great tool for teaking each speaker for your HT system. I have learned the only dumb question is one you don't ask that cost you money.