Denon x6500 vs x4500

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't like using any kind of EQ either. No big deal.

If you are sitting only 8 to 10 ft away from the screen, you should not have any kind of problem powering your speakers with the AVR alone.

I'm sitting 18 ft away from the screen. My Yamaha MX-A5000, which is kind of like an AVR's amp, has no problem powering 9 speakers (Atmos 5.5.4 system).

So you should be just fine using the AVR with no external amps.

 

[RTG]

Your room is about the same dimensions as mine. I use the Denon 4300 which I think is the equivalent of the 7012. I had a 7009 before and never needed more power. I find the Denon has more oomph in the low end more detail in the highs but that was when I using Audyssey MultiEQ for the full frequency spectrum. Now I limit to 300hz using the app. I turn off DEQ, my dual SVS PB-1000 are Flat. I typically listen between -17db & -10db depending on the movie and find that quite loud. Use the new app when you get your AVR so you can customize.

 

[PENG]

So the question is, how do we feel about the Marantz SR7012 to power this system? I currently do not listen to super loud levels as I have young kids and my current setup is in our living room in a small home. On my 5200 our listening level is 45-50 out of 100, with no Audessey correction ran or any dB levels changed(I have had to hard restart the amp so many times from Bluetooth/internet radio freezing that I got fed up with running Audessey). It is as if I opened the box and plugged the speakers into the amp and just watched from there. Going forward when watching movies I expect to have it at a much louder level depending on the movie. I wouldn't say cinema level but I can't say for sure. I'm considering the 7012 because it is on a serious discount, and if I spend the 875 for that rather than 1500 from the x6500, I could have an extra 625 to put towards subs (sell the NSD get 2 PB1000 or 2000).

So long story short, 7012 yay or nay?

Thanks again for all your help and for reading this long winded post.

If your speakers are going to be 8 to 10 ft from your listening position, the SR7012 should be fine for the SVS Ultra towers as long as you don't listen at (preferable a few dB below) reference level.

The 6500 has a couple of newer features and is made in Japan, but is only slightly (less than 1 dB) more powerful. You said you didn't want to add any external amp, so the key point for you to consider is whether you will eventually go with 7.1.4. If you are not sure, then the 6500 maybe better because it has 11 amp channels. Can you negotiate a better deal on the AVR-X6400H? That's really the same year model as the SR7012.

If you are sure you won't go beyond 5.1.4 then for $875, the SR7012 would be a no brainer, assuming that's brand new with full factory warranty, but where are you getting such a good deal?

 

[the machine]

PENG, forgive my noobness on these issues, but why go Atmos .4 over .2 other than it's 2 more speakers? I would think running 7.1.2 would be better than 5.1.4, no?

These are listed as new/open box on ebay from authorized retailers. Amazon also had them for 869, but I think they all sold out, (I have ebay bucks to burn so I will purchase mine through ebay, just holding off a few days to see if they put out a new ebay bucks promo). They come with full warranty and people who have purchased have been receiving brand new unopened ones, listed as open box for MSRP reasons.

 

[PENG]

PENG, forgive my noobness on these issues, but why go Atmos .4 over .2 other than it's 2 more speakers? I would think running 7.1.2 would be better than 5.1.4, no?

This is subjective. I think .4 is more balance than .2 and I prefer the height/ceiling speakers to be .4 so that I can place 2 at the back and 2 in the front for surround effects from the top. So in that sense, I think 5.1.4 is better than 7.1.2.

These are listed as new/open box on ebay from authorized retailers. Amazon also had them for 869, but I think they all sold out, (I have ebay bucks to burn so I will purchase mine through ebay, just holding off a few days to see if they put out a new ebay bucks promo). They come with full warranty and people who have purchased have been receiving brand new unopened ones, listed as open box for MSRP reasons.

Thanks for the info, I have never seen SR7012 going for less than $1199 on Amazon. To me, I would never pay $300 more for the 7.1 analog out (vs the AVR-X4400H) that I have had and never used. The HDAM modules may offer limited theoretical advantages but certainly not audible to me so after owning 2 Marantz prepro I settled back on Denon.

If you are happy with 5.1.4, even at the current $1199 on Amazon would be an excellent choice, other than that, the best deal I could find for a brand new AVR-X6400H is form Crutchfield for $1500.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-B7ifVWJrpIL/p_033AVX6400/Denon-AVR-X6400H-IN-Command.html

 

[the machine]

Thanks for the input. I don't know how many Atmos enabled movies I will be watching in reality, so i'm not sure if 7.1.2 wouldn't be more practical than 5.1.4 for my own purposes. Again, noobish here so I may be totally off on this statement.

as far as the 6400, I wouldn't get that as I have an in with an audio retailer, a friend of mine in their webmaster so they hook me up with slightly above cost pricing on some items. If I got another Denon it would be the 6500 at 1500. But are the possibility of IMAX enhancement and 2 extra channels with more power worth an extra 625$ for the speakers I have, in the room they will be used in? Or save the extra and put that savings into a new sub?

 

[PENG]

as far as the 6400, I wouldn't get that as I have an in with an audio retailer, a friend of mine in their webmaster so they hook me up with slightly above cost pricing on some items. If I got another Denon it would be the 6500 at 1500. But are the possibility of IMAX enhancement and 2 extra channels with more power worth an extra 625$ for the speakers I have, in the room they will be used in? Or save the extra and put that savings into a new sub?

I have no experience with the Imax enhancement thing but hopefully some one who has will chime in. If your friend can get the 6500 for $1500, can he get the 6400 for much less?

 

[the machine]

No, the 6400 was 1400. 4400 for 900. I figure the Marantz is comparable, maybe a step up from the 4400, but obv less than the 64/6500. I just want to get the most bang for my buck but not feel like I'm missing out. Before I got my 5200 I have the 4200, twice because I kept having issues and finally just said well I might as well upgrade to the 5200 in case I'm missing out on something. I just don't want to have that feeling if I get the 7012, and in a month say, hmmmmm I wish I got the 6500, and that silver chassis. mmmmmmmmmm

 

[PENG]

No, the 6400 was 1400. 4400 for 900. I figure the Marantz is comparable, maybe a step up from the 4400, but obv less than the 64/6500. I just want to get the most bang for my buck but not feel like I'm missing out. Before I got my 5200 I have the 4200, twice because I kept having issues and finally just said well I might as well upgrade to the 5200 in case I'm missing out on something. I just don't want to have that feeling if I get the 7012, and in a month say, hmmmmm I wish I got the 6500, and that silver chassis. mmmmmmmmmm

Tough call then... All I can say is, if it's my money I think $1,500 for a $2199 listed current model 6500 is a great deal. Then you know for sure you won't miss out on any D&M feature that is currently available, and being made in Japan, you can reasonably expect better quality control.

$875 for the SR7012 is obviously a much better deal, but to me it is just too good to be true. I am also too skeptical about open box and/or refurb, for electronic products that sophisticated anyway.

 

[the machine]

Yeah the 6500 is a great deal. I'm just curious if it is that much more needed given my set up over the 7012 given the low price.

As far as I know it's a discounted price to clear out old stock because of the 7013, but that's just what some people are saying. Any issues I can always return, or file a paypal case.
https://slickdeals.net/f/12612037-marantz-sr7012-9-2ch-4k-surround-receiver-869-fs?src=SiteSearchV2_SearchBarV2Algo1

 

[PENG]

Yeah the 6500 is a great deal. I'm just curious if it is that much more needed given my set up over the 7012 given the low price.

As far as I know it's a discounted price to clear out old stock because of the 7013, but that's just what some people are saying. Any issues I can always return, or file a paypal case.
https://slickdeals.net/f/12612037-marantz-sr7012-9-2ch-4k-surround-receiver-869-fs?src=SiteSearchV2_SearchBarV2Algo1

People can say whatever, from what I can see, that low price is for used ones that look like new. It could be returns that are in perfect condition. I wouldn't take a chance on something like a full featured AVR, but that's just me.

I think @AcuDefTechGuy may have the same opinion, but even then it would be just us.

 

[the machine]

People can say whatever, from what I can see, that low price is for used ones that look like new. It could be returns that are in perfect condition. I wouldn't take a chance on something like a full featured AVR, but that's just me.

I think @AcuDefTechGuy may have the same opinion, but even then it would be just us.

Lets just assume that it is a new unit, never opened. Someone said they contacted a seller and was told they will receive a brand new one. I will contact them as well before purchasing. I'm not too concerned myself with this as I can always case up with eBay/PayPal if there are any issues. I do however appreciate your point of view on the matter. (I used to work in sporting goods retail that sold on eBay, and we consistently sold new items listed as "new other" or sometimes even "used" and rated them 9.999999 out of 10 to avoid manufacturer quarrels.)

I just don't want to feel underwhelmed if it doesn't have them power to run the Ultra series speakers, but it seems that others think it will be ok. I would rather save the money and put it toward upgrading subs, but at the end of the day better or multiple subs will not be worth it if the main part of the sound system doesn't have enough juice. That is really my only concern.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to all of my posts today

 

[ryanosaur]

Hi Machine,
Just curious if you game or not, regarading 5.1 or 7.1... I've noticed a lot of info on games going to the rears... just wanted to throw that out there in case. Otherwise, general consensus says go 5.x.4 with Top Front and Top Rear Atmos, (if you want). Seems those have the better impact than Front or Rear Height speakers.
Cheers! And Hahppy Hunting

 

[PENG]

Lets just assume that it is a new unit, never opened. Someone said they contacted a seller and was told they will receive a brand new one. I will contact them as well before purchasing. I'm not too concerned myself with this as I can always case up with eBay/PayPal if there are any issues. I do however appreciate your point of view on the matter. (I used to work in sporting goods retail that sold on eBay, and we consistently sold new items listed as "new other" or sometimes even "used" and rated them 9.999999 out of 10 to avoid manufacturer quarrels.)

I just don't want to feel underwhelmed if it doesn't have them power to run the Ultra series speakers, but it seems that others think it will be ok. I would rather save the money and put it toward upgrading subs, but at the end of the day better or multiple subs will not be worth it if the main part of the sound system doesn't have enough juice. That is really my only concern.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to all of my posts today

Such AVRs have tons of features, so I would suggest you take the time to test and confirm everything you would ever use are in good working order, within the return window.

 

[the machine]

Hi Machine,
Just curious if you game or not, regarading 5.1 or 7.1... I've noticed a lot of info on games going to the rears... just wanted to throw that out there in case. Otherwise, general consensus says go 5.x.4 with Top Front and Top Rear Atmos, (if you want). Seems those have the better impact than Front or Rear Height speakers.
Cheers! And Hahppy Hunting

I do little to no gaming at all.

I probably am too ignorant on the subject so forgive my questions, but won’t the .4 speakers only run if the audio track has Atmos sound? The majority of what I view is Netflix, HBO, and sports, but I do have an abundance of dvds and blu rays.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think "LIKE NEW" is a lot better than "REFURBISHED".

"Refurbished" tells me they came from the NJ repair factory, which I don't trust at all.

 

[ryanosaur]

but won’t the .4 speakers only run if the audio track has Atmos sound?

That, I cannot answer with any authority, but I suspect that much like the rears getting 5.1 upmixed to 7.1, the Atmos speakers will get used, even if not authentically encoded.

Perhaps somebody can confirm my theory?

That said, I am going to start buying some stuff just for the atmos experience when I get that part of my rig working. I have the AVR... and when my big speakers come in, I'll only be a pair of atmos speakers shy of the .4 rig.

 

[PENG]

That, I cannot answer with any authority, but I suspect that much like the rears getting 5.1 upmixed to 7.1, the Atmos speakers will get used, even if not authentically encoded.

Perhaps somebody can confirm my theory?

That said, I am going to start buying some stuff just for the atmos experience when I get that part of my rig working. I have the AVR... and when my big speakers come in, I'll only be a pair of atmos speakers shy of the .4 rig.

Yes, they do get the "upmixed" sound.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh yeah, I can unequivocally confirm that the 4 ceiling speakers are actively used when you use DSU and NeuralX.

Actually I’ve found that DSU and NeuralX can make significantly more use of the 4 ceiling speakers than most DTSX and Auro3D BluRays and a few Atmos BluRays.

I think this makes the 4 ceiling speakers + DSU/NeuralX a lot more enticing because you don’t even need to buy Atmos, DTSX, or Auro3D BluRays to enjoy the 4 ceiling speakers.

 

[snakeeyes]

Oh yeah, I can unequivocally confirm that the 4 ceiling speakers are actively used when you use DSU and NeuralX.

Actually I’ve found that DSU and NeuralX can make significantly more use of the 4 ceiling speakers than most DTSX and Auro3D BluRays and a few Atmos BluRays.

I think this makes the 4 ceiling speakers + DSU/NeuralX a lot more enticing because you don’t even need to buy Atmos, DTSX, or Auro3D BluRays to enjoy the 4 ceiling speakers.

But the 4 ceilings disengage in the “straight” setting if it isn’t Atmos or DTSX, right?