Denon x3800 - Recovery mode issue

[Sylar]

I ran into an issue with my Denon x3800H where the front panel display stopped working. I attempted a factory reset, followed by firmware restore. Waited for a while then receiver restarted. Front Display is still not on.

Post restart, it reported that it's in "Recovery mode - Firmware update required". I attempted the same, and it's "Checking for update", for more than 30 mins. Not sure what to do.

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[lovinthehd]

If in warranty still I'd contact Sound United....assuming its not so new as to simply return it.

 

[TLS Guy]

I ran into an issue with my Denon x3800H where the front panel display stopped working. I attempted a factory reset, followed by firmware restore. Waited for a while then receiver restarted. Front Display is still not on.

Post restart, it reported that it's in "Recovery mode - Firmware update required". I attempted the same, and it's "Checking for update", for more than 30 mins. Not sure what to do.

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately it sounds as if the BIOS has somehow got corrupted. I doubt you will fix that. I believe you are located in India. So contact who you bought the unit from and see what they advise.

That unit is not very old and was only released 3 years ago. I note that Audio review found that it tested worse than the model that preceded it, which is not encouraging. I note from reports on the "NET" that these units are known for a number of diverse problems. I see they are made in Japan, so this is somewhat surprising.

Sound United do seem to be in turmoil at present. I had an AV 7705 fail at five years and no boards available for repair, and a 7706 fail at three months. It has been in for warranty repair for six weeks and I have had no communication. I sent a nice and informative covering letter, with the unit, and asked for feedback and left all my contact details in the letter. I have heard nothing.

Anyhow I bought and AV 10, and it seems a nice unit and well built, which it should for what it cost. Only time will tell if it has a long problem free life.

Sound United are an important, and you could say vital player, in the home AV market. These sorts of issues are very disconcerting, at least to me.

 

[Sylar]

Unfortunately it sounds as if the BIOS has somehow got corrupted. I doubt you will fix that. I believe you are located in India. So contact who you bought the unit from and see what they advise.

That unit is not very old and was only released 3 years ago. I note that Audio review found that it tested worse than the model that preceded it, which is not encouraging. I note from reports on the "NET" that these units are known for a number of diverse problems. I see they are made in Japan, so this is somewhat surprising.

Sound United do seem to be in turmoil at present. I had an AV 7705 fail at five years and no boards available for repair, and a 7706 fail at three months. It has been in for warranty repair for six weeks and I have had no communication. I sent a nice and informative covering letter, with the unit, and asked for feedback and left all my contact details in the letter. I have heard nothing.

Anyhow I bought and AV 10, and it seems a nice unit and well built, which it should for what it cost. Only time will tell if it has a long problem free life.

Sound United are an important, and you could say vital player, in the home AV market. These sorts of issues are very disconcerting, at least to me.

Yes i am in India. Its been a while since i have been here. Work has been crazy since COVID.

The issue I'm facing is very strange and receiver is working today and I am not sure what happened!! Here is what happened, retracing my steps.

• HDMI board replaced about 10 days back.
  • Used receiver without HDMI to PC. Used only music streaming from PC, Spotify & Internet radio, plus TV connected via ARC.
• Was setting up receiver after a factory reset, and then setup much of it including Audyssey setup.
• Ran setup again for source setup, and connected HDMI (New cable) from PC, when prompted.
  • And then bam, no display from PC.
  • Same cable worked with work Laptop as source (I only checked display and not audio from source).
• I think i restarted or so.
• Front Display not working.
  • Ran Factory Reset receiver
  • No display
  • Ran Firmware restore
    • Firmware updated and system restarted
    • Post restart, Online firmware update was stuck with "Searching for updates"
    • After 2-3 hours of nothing, I restarted the receiver
    • Fortunately, Firmware updated successfully on first attempt!
    • Still No Front panel display
  • Reattempted this morning after everything was off overnight, everything disconnected and then reconnected.
  • No display and no audio.
  • I removed the receiver and put it in a bag to carry it to service center.
  • I decided to try something, reconnected and it worked (Audio, video and front panel display!).
• I have now given it to service center, to get it checked.

What just happened?
If i recall it correctly, Issue began around when I tried to connect HDMI from PC to AVR.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes i am in India. Its been a while since i have been here. Work has been crazy since COVID.

The issue I'm facing is very strange and receiver is working today and I am not sure what happened!! Here is what happened, retracing my steps.

• HDMI board replaced about 10 days back.
  • Used receiver without HDMI to PC. Used only music streaming from PC, Spotify & Internet radio, plus TV connected via ARC.
• Was setting up receiver after a factory reset, and then setup much of it including Audyssey setup.
• Ran setup again for source setup, and connected HDMI (New cable) from PC, when prompted.
  • And then bam, no display from PC.
  • Same cable worked with work Laptop as source (I only checked display and not audio from source).
• I think i restarted or so.
• Front Display not working.
  • Ran Factory Reset receiver
  • No display
  • Ran Firmware restore
    • Firmware updated and system restarted
    • Post restart, Online firmware update was stuck with "Searching for updates"
    • After 2-3 hours of nothing, I restarted the receiver
    • Fortunately, Firmware updated successfully on first attempt!
    • Still No Front panel display
  • Reattempted this morning after everything was off overnight, everything disconnected and then reconnected.
  • No display and no audio.
  • I removed the receiver and put it in a bag to carry it to service center.
  • I decided to try something, reconnected and it worked (Audio, video and front panel display!).
• I have now given it to service center, to get it checked.

What just happened?
If i recall it correctly, Issue began around when I tried to connect HDMI from PC to AVR.

Now I think I know what your problem is. The key is viewing your PC. I have had the same problem with my 7706 and the AV 10. Sound United seem to be slightly changing the refresh rate the AVRs and AVPs will accept.

So go to settings in Windows on your pc, go to settings and then advanced settings and increase the refresh rate just one notch. I had to do this when I installed the 7706 and again when I installed the AV 10.

 

[Sylar]

Now I think I know what your problem is. The key is viewing your PC. I have had the same problem with my 7706 and the AV 10. Sound United seem to be slightly changing the refresh rate the AVRs and AVPs will accept.

So go to settings in Windows on your pc, go to settings and then advanced settings and increase the refresh rate just one notch. I had to do this when I installed the 7706 and again when I installed the AV 10.

Are you referring to this, i think this is a per display setting (I would need to set it for AVR when connected and detected). I will try to change from 59.95 to 60 Hz when i get the receiver back from service center.

BTW, what is an AVP?

Here is the refresh rate on my systems.

• PC - 59.59 (Faced TV Display issue here)
• Work Laptop 60 Hz (Display to TV via AVR worked with this)

 

[TLS Guy]

Are you referring to this, i think this is a per display setting (I would need to set it for AVR when connected and detected). I will try to change from 59.95 to 60 Hz when i get the receiver back from service center.

BTW, what is an AVP?

Here is the refresh rate on my systems.

• PC - 59.59 (Faced TV Display issue here)
• Work Laptop 60 Hz (Display to TV via AVR worked with this)

View attachment 74108

Yes, try going to 60 Hz on the refresh rate and notch it up one integer at a time until you see the picture, but restart your computer after each change. It worked like a charm for me. By the way to do this you will have to connect your computer directly to the TV and not the receiver.

I use AV preamps and not receivers, as my system can not be driven from a receiver.

 

[Sylar]

Yes, try going to 60 Hz on the refresh rate and notch it up one integer at a time until you see the picture, but restart your computer after each change. It worked like a charm for me. By the way to do this you will have to connect your computer directly to the TV and not the receiver.

I use AV preamps and not receivers, as my system can not be driven from a receiver.

I will note this down. Refresh rate + to update refresh rate setting with TV connected first.

Here is what happened in the past 4+ years.

• Previous AVR: Lasted 10+ years, ran into HDMI issue about 4 years back with no video, and working audio.
• HDMI AV splitter: Used splitter after that, and ran into HDMI issue with splitter failing in few months.
• Desktop PC HDMI: I faced problem twice, 2-3 years back. Mobo replaced twice in warranty. 6 months back, replaced PSU + Mobo with new ones.
• Got the x3800 about 1.5 years back, and the HDMI got hit within days. Board replaced recently.

Can this incorrect refresh rate damage the HDMI chip in all of these devices below? (I have ran into issues with each of these devices at a different point in time)
1. HDMI chip of AVR
2. HDMI PC mobo (Not connector for sure, some processor or display chip)
3. HDMI splitter (I suspect some HDMI chip issue)

Here is what i got from the manual on refresh rate/video signal. (Not sure what the source - PC is sending. TV is 1080p not 4K)

 

[Sylar]

Yes, try going to 60 Hz on the refresh rate and notch it up one integer at a time until you see the picture, but restart your computer after each change. It worked like a charm for me. By the way to do this you will have to connect your computer directly to the TV and not the receiver.

I use AV preamps and not receivers, as my system can not be driven from a receiver.

I checked the TV with PC, and it is already at 60 Hz (The PC monitor was set as 59.95 Hz). I doubt the refresh rate was the issue here.

Will a long cable length be the cause for my problems where HDMI board/chips are being damaged (25 ft in my case)?

 

[TLS Guy]

I checked the TV with PC, and it is already at 60 Hz (The PC monitor was set as 59.95 Hz). I doubt the refresh rate was the issue here.

Will a long cable length be the cause for my problems where HDMI board/chips are being damaged (25 ft in my case)?

25 ft. is far too long for a passive HDMI cable.

You need either a hybrid cable that sends video over fiber, and audio over copper. Or now they have all fiber cables. Your HDMI input on your receiver will not have enough power, to power the cable and it will blow your HDMI board. So you will need a voltage inserter. These cables are directional. This is not voodoo for these cables. If you place it the wrong way round it won't work.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

25 ft. is far too long for a passive HDMI cable.

Really? I’ve been using a 50FT passive HDMI cable for 9 years (from AVP to PJ).

This can damage the HDMI board on the AVP or PJ?

 

[TLS Guy]

Really? I’ve been using a 50FT passive HDMI cable for 9 years (from AVP to PJ).

This can damage the HDMI board on the AVP or PJ?

It depends what your resolution is. The HDMI recommendation is not to have passive cables over 25' for 4k and 8K devices. However there is data to show that results may vary and to seriously consider active cables when you go over the 12' to 15' range

For 2K that is fine, but not 4K and 8K. For those hybrid or fully optical cables are recommended. Usually in those situations you get no picture, or drop outs. Best practice is to use active cables if the run is longer than 12' to 15' range. I put in a 35 ft. Ruipro hybrid cable in the AV room. I have helped members who had issues with cables below 25' and in that 15' to 25' range and solved the problem with an active cable

What damages the HDMI board is that they draw too much power if your HDMI version is less than HDMI 2.2. The older ports max out safely with a draw of 30 ma, active cables can draw 300 ma. With my AV 7705 and 7706 I used a voltage inserter, but I don't need it with the AV 10 which has a port that can deliver 300 ma.

So the damage from not using a voltage inserter when using a PJ and AVR or AVP would depend on which one was supplying the power.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It depends what your resolution is. The HDMI recommendation is not to have passive cables over 25' for 4k and 8K devices. However there is data to show that results may vary and to seriously consider active cables when you go over the 12' to 15' range

For 2K that is fine, but not 4K and 8K. For those hybrid or fully optical cables are recommended. Usually in those situations you get no picture, or drop outs. Best practice is to use active cables if the run is longer than 12' to 15' range. I put in a 35 ft. Ruipro hybrid cable in the AV room. I have helped members who had issues with cables below 25' and in that 15' to 25' range and solved the problem with an active cable

What damages the HDMI board is that they draw too much power if your HDMI version is less than HDMI 2.2. The older ports max out safely with a draw of 30 ma, active cables can draw 300 ma. With my AV 7705 and 7706 I used a voltage inserter, but I don't need it with the AV 10 which has a port that can deliver 300 ma.

So the damage from not using a voltage inserter when using a PJ and AVR or AVP would depend on which one was supplying the power.

I forgot that my cable is passive. But I had to use an 5V/1A Active HDMI Booster to connect to the PJ. Otherwise, I couldn’t get any signals. It’s been a while.

 

[TLS Guy]

I forgot that my cable is passive. But I had to use an 5V/1A Active HDMI Booster to connect to the PJ. Otherwise, I couldn’t get any signals. It’s been a while.

I think you would get better results with an active fiber cable. I think there is a very good chance PQ would improve.

The less connections you have the better with HDMI. I think the improved PQ I am getting with the AV 10 is due to not having to use the voltage inserter. It is know that every connection results in reflections and increased error rate. What are you using for you drive, AVR or IVP and which unit?

HDMI connections are trouble prone at the best of times. The connector has a lot of connections in a small space. They are very easily damaged, so I use strain relief in my cables and Zip tie them to the rack.

It is not well know that you need a voltage inserter for units that only supply 30 ma from the ports. I would bet a lot of HDMI boards have been blown this way. The HDMI 1.5 amps, but the previous iterations only 0.15 amps. So this is a big deal and this issue is not discussed enough. So, I'm glad you brought it up.