Denon DVD-5900 Contrast Bug

Guest · Jan 5, 2004

I have had the 5900 for a month now. I run it through a 16/9 CRT. The darkest film I have is MIB superbit and in the black of night their shirts are the whitest white.
The tray to put the media in is very deep. I would suggest those having problems to make sure the media is flat on the floor and there is no debris in the tray. I haven't had any trouble.
How it sounds and what the picture looks like will vary with the equipment you use. Also involved is how carefully you set up a player with so many options. If you have been to a CES you will know that even experts can have a rough time making a room sound and look right.
Therefor I enjoy submissions with hints on how to improve performance, but find little use for the closet mod propagandists countinuosly saying that even the cheapest modded player would be better.
I enjoy whatever I play on the 5900.

gene · Jan 6, 2004

Donato;

Thanks for your feedback.  You are correct, this player is a bit complicated to set up properly.  Until recently we weren't aware of the 0/+7.5IRE setting in the Pic Adj menu.  It was assumed that Black Level "Normal/Enhanced" performed this function as I believe Black Level "Normal/Darker" does on the DVD-2900.  That being the case, we are seeing a much more dynamic picture on the DVD-5900 in the 0IRE setting on our displays then we have in +7.5IRE mode.  After CES we will be testing this player again to compare 0/+7.5IRE modes and also consult with Denon for recommended set-up and calibration procedures.  We will surely update the article accordingly for the benefit of all owners.

We are still perplexed by the very slow navigation and chapter searching and hope Denon can resolve this with firmware.

pam · Jan 6, 2004

gene : Donato;

Thanks for your feedback. You are correct, this player is a bit complicated to set up properly. Until recently we weren't aware of the 0/+7.5IRE setting in the Pic Adj menu. It was assumed that Black Level "Normal/Enhanced" performed this function as I believe Black Level "Normal/Darker" does on the DVD-2900. That being the case, we are seeing a much more dynamic picture on the DVD-5900 in the 0IRE setting on our displays then we have in +7.5IRE mode. After CES we will be testing this player again to compare 0/+7.5IRE modes and also consult with Denon for recommended set-up and calibration procedures. We will surely update the article accordingly for the benefit of all owners.

We are still perplexed by the very slow navigation and chapter searching and hope Denon can resolve this with firmware.

Gene, please

There is something that I don't understand. I did not try a 5900 but the set-up of this DVD should be clear enough even to newbies like me. Furthermore, you are an expert and you have tested this player. Denon should be able to provide an optimal set-up on which we could build on.
What I am trying to say is that with this kind of MRSP (around 2K) the setup should be well described.Like the default value for IRE should have been 0.

Does Denon only sell to experts that are able to set it up? For me reading the owner's manual should be enough... and default values should be set to take best advantage of the capability of the player...

Thanks

Guest · Jan 6, 2004

Guest : I have had the 5900 for a month now. I run it through a 16/9 CRT. The darkest film I have is MIB superbit and in the black of night their shirts are the whitest white.
The tray to put the media in is very deep. I would suggest those having problems to make sure the media is flat on the floor and there is no debris in the tray. I haven't had any trouble.
How it sounds and what the picture looks like will vary with the equipment you use. Also involved is how carefully you set up a player with so many options. If you have been to a CES you will know that even experts can have a rough time making a room sound and look right.
Therefor I enjoy submissions with hints on how to improve performance, but find little use for the closet mod propagandists countinuosly saying that even the cheapest modded player would be better.
I enjoy whatever I play on the 5900.

Donato...it does not matter what you think about the 5900 as it was our hard earned money that paid for one of the first 5900's whith transport grinding/lockup,major macro blocking on an 8ft widescreen DLP that was not repeatable whith 5 other players.
As I said, the 5900 offers great sound but does not compare to hi end cd/sa-cd players or universals and the people who say it does have never even compared the two.

I had a Sony 9000 es whith Modwright signature mods and a modded Phillips 963sa when I bought the 5900 and both were/are on another level in sa-cd/cd sonics.
I also had a 777es which bettered the 5900 in sa-cd.

The 777es was 2k,2.8k for the Modwright 9000 and around 1200.00 total including mods in the 963sa.

The best sa-cd/cd playback was offered by the cheapest modified player in all who listened proving once again that parts quality = great sonics.

The 5900 did offer the best video by far on material that had no macro blocking.....this is what was so frustrating about owning the 5900.

If not for the macro blocking and transport grinding/lockup, I had planned on modding the 5900 which then would probably be as good as a 4 k universal or better sonically.

No amount of adjustment could get rid of the macro blocking to a level that was exceptable.

I can live whith the slooooow response time and  maybe the transport problem that in my case, was not repeatable, but the video being as good as it was on some material,just made it that much more of a let down while watching movies like Pitch Black,Unbreakable,Blade 2,Aliens,Broken Arrow ect ect.

Why don't you go over to the avs board and tell all the others who bought a 5900 that the macro blocking can be taken care of simply by making adjustments

And BTW....i was using about 15k in hi end gear to compare sonics so I would listen to some other gear before declaring the 5900 as the best universal....unless of course your comparing to stock 2k and under universals.

Rob Babcock · Jan 6, 2004

Comparing a modded player to the stock Denon is pointless- why you don't check out Modwright's 5900 package?  Dan himself says he thinks that once modded, the 5900 is the best sounding universal player there is.  It'll be a little more expensive that the Phillips but you'll get DVD-A playback, too.  And the extra $ will help you impress people when you talk about your $15K stereo.

Guest · Jan 6, 2004

I have always looked at home theater as a way to enjoy misic and movies. There is no way I could afford an ultimate system. However if you carefully read reviews of equipment in magazines you will find that experts cannot agree on perfection at any price!
The war between being stuck with what the man at the factory thinks is the best picture and having so many adjustments you go crazy will never be won. I just adjust a few each day. After you have been through the menu a few times, you'll probably know what you like best.
I still think that buying the best unaltered player in your budget is the way to go. Imagine the joy of having your player modded and then having it grind up your discs when it can no longer be returned
Finally since the people who make the discs can't make up their mind a universal player is the easiest way to go. I may not have the best system in the world but I have never had anybody say this sucks and walk out of the room.

gene · Jan 6, 2004

ATTN Audioholics;

We redid some of our measurements in the 0IRE setting as well as the +7.5IRE (With careful tweaking of our Display) and found a much improved contrast ratio.

Please review our updated article:
Denon DVD-5900 Contrast Bug or Configuration

We apologize for misinterpreting our initial results.  This just goes to show you even the most serious Audioholics can get stumped

During our critical review process, we will offer set-up tips and tweaks based on our findings and Denon's feedback, to help you get the most out of this player.  We may even offer Denon a dedicated forum spot to support this product here.  

Stay tuned...

petermwilson · Jan 7, 2004

Hi
As the owner of an upgraded Denon 5800 I took significant interest in the audio portion of the 5900 particularly since it was connected to the Flagship Denon 5803 for the review.

My understanding is that the 5803 does internal decoding of any dvd-a signals it recieves.  If this is accurate I was wondering where does the 5900 end and the 5803 begin and vice versa in the processing of these signals.

Quite frankly as long as it sounds great, personally I don't care but for review purposes in the final analysis how do you know which one your reviewing?  It would seem logical that there's some crossover somewhere.

Peter m.

Guest · Jan 11, 2004

Rob Babcock : Comparing a modded player to the stock Denon is pointless- why you don't check out Modwright's 5900 package? Dan himself says he thinks that once modded, the 5900 is the best sounding universal player there is. It'll be a little more expensive that the Phillips but you'll get DVD-A playback, too. And the extra $ will help you impress people when you talk about your $15K stereo.

Rob , I am NOT bragging, just pointing that out so that others no I did a fair comparison of the players sonics.

I bought the 5900 whith full mods in mind believing I would have a dream universal after mods.
If you read my post you would notice that I had video macro blocking and noise in dark scenes of way too many movies and this is why I took the player back.

I do agree that the 5900 would make an awesome sounding modded universal in just about any systym though.

Rob Babcock · Jan 11, 2004

I was just ribbing you a little.  It seems to me that for max performance, modding is the way to go, even with some pretty expensive gear.  As far as the Denon, I just know that Dan Wright knows a helluva a lot more about digital than I do, and if he thinks that it's the cat's PJs when modded then that's what I'll be drooling over!

Not that I'll be able to buy one anytime soon.  I have a DVD-2200, and I'm very happy with it.  If I could afford something nicer I'd go for it, but unfortunately I've got champagne taste with a King Kobra budget!

Guest · Jan 12, 2004

Realty check!
There is no best, there is only what you like best. In search of finding this elusive quality and talking of a companies top of the line player, what do we need to obtain Nirvana? It would be nice if a setup DVD came with the unit or one could be purchased at a discount with a coupon. It would be helpful if registered owners could be notified of firmware updates. It would be great if forums stayed on topic instead of the "its stinks compared to..." or "if you swapped out all the components it would be almost as good as.."
It was posted by the moderator that setup can improve the quality of the output. I would be interested to hear what was done.
We should be helping people get the most from their purchase.
It is a hobby not a war.

Guest · Jan 27, 2004

gene : After our initial first look of the Denon DVD-5900, it quickly became apparent to us, that this player was plagued with a Contrast Bug. We patiently waited for a second player from Denon to verify our objective analysis and visual observations prior to reporting this to our readership. As a result of testing the first and second players, we are now confident that the DVD-5900 has a Contrast Bug. We are hopeful that Denon can resolve this with an easy firmware fix just like they have resolved other operational issues with previous players. We will report their feedback to this issue when we meet their engineers at CES 2004.

Denon DVD-5900 Contrast Bug

i do agree with you, i just received my dvd 5900 and for instance i'm not happy.
it's true, there is a contrast bug, i'm trying to calibrate my dlp projector (sharp xvz-10000) and i don't like the black level.
i hope not regret my "old" dvd 2800 mk2.
please keep me posted if denon do something.
denon dvd 5900 serial number :3088400711.
thanks.

gene · Jan 27, 2004

Paul;

Try setting the player to 0IRE in the "Pic Adjust" menu.  The manual doesn't document this well.  I am interested to hear your findings.

Juan Solo · Jan 28, 2004

Does anybody know when the formal review of the 5900 is coming out? It appears that the contrast bug was not a bug after all, but rather had something to do with the player set-up. There seems to be news coming out on this player almost daily but I want to read some sort of professional review.

Thanks

Juan

gene · Jan 28, 2004

Juan;

We have been so swamped lately with CES and product reviews, etc.  I am shooting to publish the review by end of February, first week in March.  There now I am committed

petermwilson · Jan 28, 2004

Hi Juan,
Well your lucky to have found this site for many reasons not the least of which is the quality of the product reviews.  With you last statement in mind, have a gander of the Feb issue of Home Theatre Magazine where a group of RPTV's were reviewed.

After looking at the methodoloogy you'll probably wan't to decide the parameters you attach to professional reviews.

Personally I thought it was a disgrace.

Peter m.

Guest · Feb 5, 2004

gene : Paul;

Try setting the player to 0IRE in the "Pic Adjust" menu. The manual doesn't document this well. I am interested to hear your findings.

thats right, i put the black level at 0 ire and it's working fine.
do you know how to put it multiregion?
thanks.

Guest · Feb 17, 2004

when u set the ire to 0 do you use the std setting or one of the memories?Is the std at 0 ire as well as it does seem brighter than all the memorie settings when it is set at 0!

Guest · Feb 28, 2004

I am waiting for a retraction from you guys on this issue.  As I thought, there was nothing wrong with the 5900, it is dead on the specs (per secrets who actually used a scope to measure white and black)!  It turns out that the 2900 isn't to the spec and that white is too hot and not at 100IRE.  Are you guys going to stand by your results (flawed as they are), or print a retraction?

Dave

gene · Feb 28, 2004

David;

How about rereading our original article as we have since then updated it and perhaps next time post with a bit more civility.

Denon DVD-5900 Contrast Bug

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