Denon AVR-X5200W Dolby Atmos AV Receiver Reviewed

[Steve81]

Cooler operating temperature is definitely better for longevity.

I do think the AVP-A1 operates cooler than the AVR-5308 (as a pre-amp only).

But add 2 or 3 quiet PC/USB fans atop the AVR and it operates very cool as well even after several hours of use.

So I do agree that higher-end pre-pros usually have much better heat dissipation. I don't know about under $2K pre-pros, though. Maybe still a little better just because there isn't an amp inside.

I don't know about all sub-$2k pre/pros, but my Emotiva UMC-200 runs cool to the touch without any active cooling. This is in stark contrast to my old Onkyo AVR which got burning hot just being used as a preamp. I did use a fan to keep it from frying, but it still bugged me (obviously ). Of course the UMC-200 is a relatively simple device (no video upscaling, etc).

 

[Mrtvgame]

Hi there,

In the review you state:
The AVR-X5200W has plenty of grunt via the preamp outputs to use in conjunction with virtually any separate amplifier should you desire more power. I measured unclipped output of 4.5Vrms from every channel. We like to see at least 2Vrms and the Denon met this with over 6db of margin to spare.

I wanted to add a crown xls 2000 to power my front left and right polk audio towers (500 wpc). I used the preouts from 5200 (RCA) and ran them to the crown. When I fired it all up there was no increase in volume or performance of the speakers. I had the crown gains at 12 and 2. Denon was up to 70-80% on volume.

Crown states it needs 1.4v input. I called Denon tech support and they said the pre amp outputs are 1.2v Does this match to what you found above? I contacted Crown again and they said no this does not match what Denon tech support said.

So can you shed some light on this? I don't want to have to go out and buy a Rolls Converter or CleanBox Pro if not needed.

Additional info. Speaker set up is 5.1.4, with the atmos speakers dedicated in ceiling speakers. I have yet to run Audyssey or tinker much with set up except to set fron speakers to large and sub to sub+main.

When I get home tonight, i am going to make sure that I actually hooked up the right pre-outs in case that's the issue. i.e. ran front heights instead of front left/right fro pre-amp outputs.

Cheers from a long time lurker and first time poster.

 

[PENG]

I had the crown gains at 12 and 2. Denon was up to 70-80% on volume.

What do you mean by Crown gains at 12 and 2? The manual shows the gain has settings from 0 to 10. Have you tried setting them to 10?

What do you mean by Denon was up to 70 to 80%? Typically the volume setting for Denon AVRs are from either 1-98 or -79.5 to +18.

It would be helpful if you can provide us the specifications of your speakers.

 

[gene]

Hi there,

In the review you state:
The AVR-X5200W has plenty of grunt via the preamp outputs to use in conjunction with virtually any separate amplifier should you desire more power. I measured unclipped output of 4.5Vrms from every channel. We like to see at least 2Vrms and the Denon met this with over 6db of margin to spare.

I wanted to add a crown xls 2000 to power my front left and right polk audio towers (500 wpc). I used the preouts from 5200 (RCA) and ran them to the crown. When I fired it all up there was no increase in volume or performance of the speakers. I had the crown gains at 12 and 2. Denon was up to 70-80% on volume.

Crown states it needs 1.4v input. I called Denon tech support and they said the pre amp outputs are 1.2v Does this match to what you found above? I contacted Crown again and they said no this does not match what Denon tech support said.

So can you shed some light on this? I don't want to have to go out and buy a Rolls Converter or CleanBox Pro if not needed.

Additional info. Speaker set up is 5.1.4, with the atmos speakers dedicated in ceiling speakers. I have yet to run Audyssey or tinker much with set up except to set fron speakers to large and sub to sub+main.

When I get home tonight, i am going to make sure that I actually hooked up the right pre-outs in case that's the issue. i.e. ran front heights instead of front left/right fro pre-amp outputs.

Cheers from a long time lurker and first time poster.

Welcome to the forum. The Denon Vout rating is NOT a max rating. I measured max unclipped and there is plenty of gain to run the Crown to full power. Simply turn the volume control louder on your receiver. Don't expect the receiver to be louder at the same volume level it was when using the internal amps. IT all depends on the voltage gain the amp has internally.

 

[Mrtvgame]

What do you mean by Crown gains at 12 and 2? The manual shows the gain has settings from 0 to 10. Have you tried setting them to 10?

What do you mean by Denon was up to 70 to 80%? Typically the volume setting for Denon AVRs are from either 1-98 or -79.5 to +18.

It would be helpful if you can provide us the specifications of your speakers.

12 and 2 would related to 5 and 7 from what you sare saying. I did try turning them all the way up to 10 but not a hell of a lot of improvement.

And Denon was between 70 and 80 on the on the 1-98 scale.

Polk RtiA9 rated at 500wpc.

 

[Mrtvgame]

Welcome to the forum. The Denon Vout rating is NOT a max rating. I measured max unclipped and there is plenty of gain to run the Crown to full power. Simply turn the volume control louder on your receiver. Don't expect the receiver to be louder at the same volume level it was when using the internal amps. IT all depends on the voltage gain the amp has internally.

Ok, so is Denon tech werong in telling me the Preamp does 1.2v as I am at a loss why I cannot have these speakers booming with this Crown amp. Crown is telling me to add a Rolls Converter with RCA in and balanced out into the Crown to get everything to where ti should be.

Last night I turned up the gains on the Crown to full and had the volume on the Denon upwards to 80 on the 0-98 volume scale and it was no where Earth shattering as many others have reported. So I am trying to figure out what the issue is and obvioulsy rectify it.

Are there settings on the Denon that I am missing? i.e. Do I need to adjust individual volume levels for teh fronts left and right speakers in the settings, etc.?

 

[adk highlander]

What are your expectations here? If you think getting a bigger amp is going to make it "louder" you are probably just setting yourself up for a big disappointment.

Check out this article that explains the relationship between watts and db. You will see that adding that amp will only net you 1 or 2 db. http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/relationship-between-watts-and-dbs

What you are really getting with the amp is headroom. Which will allow you to listen at higher dbs without pushing the amplifier to its maximum level. Therefore saving your speakers from the amplifier clipping.

The other thing to remember is you are using a 2 channel amp so when you run your room correction and speaker setup it will adjust the levels so all the speakers match. So if the gain is cranked way up for the front two the levels may actually then be adjusted way down in the correction to keep things even across the sound-stage.

How big is your room your are trying to get booming? Have you used a spl meter so you know how loud really is and not your perception? If you are peaking over 104 db you have nothing to complain about.

 

[Mrtvgame]

What are your expectations here? If you think getting a bigger amp is going to make it "louder" you are probably just setting yourself up for a big disappointment.

Check out this article that explains the relationship between watts and db. You will see that adding that amp will only net you 1 or 2 db. http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/relationship-between-watts-and-dbs

What you are really getting with the amp is headroom. Which will allow you to listen at higher dbs without pushing the amplifier to its maximum level. Therefore saving your speakers from the amplifier clipping.

The other thing to remember is you are using a 2 channel amp so when you run your room correction and speaker setup it will adjust the levels so all the speakers match. So if the gain is cranked way up for the front two the levels may actually then be adjusted way down in the correction to keep things even across the sound-stage.

How big is your room your are trying to get booming? Have you used a spl meter so you know how loud really is and not your perception? If you are peaking over 104 db you have nothing to complain about.

I applogize I am notup to speed with the technical jargon. I was told to feed these polks more than just the Denon, so that is what I am trying to do. Initial setup offers no difference or less than just using Denon. People have noted a difference when adding this particular amp to the set up.

I am trying to detrmine if the setup is correct or if I am missing something in the chain.

The room is approximately 35 x 20 with 9 foot ceilings.
Gear: Epson 5030UB Projector
115 inch Elunevision 2.0 Gain screen
Denon 5200
Crown XLS2000
Oppo 103
Speakers: 5.1.4 Center: Polk CSiA6; Front L/R: Polk Rtia9; Rear L/R: Polk Rtia5, in celings: Polk TC60i

I don't have an SPL meter myself but my installer does so perhaps i will get him to check. Perhaps I should run the Audysey RC with the Crown gains at full and see what happens or go ahead with a rolls converter as suggested by Crown and see what happens.

When contacting Crown, here si what they said:
The review does not match what Denon told you. According to Denon, you need to use a Rolls but according to the review you do not. I’m not sure which to go with but when in doubt I’d go off of what the manufacturer said.
If you get a Rolls there is no exact point I can tell you to set it at. You’ll just want to set it to a point that allows the amplifier to reach full output. You can tell if the amp is reaching full output by looking at the lights on the front. If you can get the green -10 LED’s to come on hard green(and possible even briefly flash the red clip light) then you are at or near full output.

 

[gene]

I have no idea what "Rolls" are? Rolls of bread? Rolls Royce?

Does the Crown amp have unbalanced inputs? Are you using an unbalanced to balanced converter?

If so, use unbalanced to unbalanced instead!

Find out what the gain structure is of the Crown Amp.

A typical standard for amp gain is:
29 dB for unbalanced
23 dB for balanced

If you're using the balanced input of the Crown then you need to drive it an extra +6dB to get the equivalent output you would have had from balanced outputs of your preamp.

How loud can you make it go if you pump it past 80dB? You still have +18dB left on he VC which is a HUGE amount.

It's worry some that you don't feel its loud enough. Have you checked to make sure your speakers aren't blown? What about your hearing?

 

[PENG]

12 and 2 would related to 5 and 7 from what you sare saying. I did try turning them all the way up to 10 but not a hell of a lot of improvement.

And Denon was between 70 and 80 on the on the 1-98 scale.

Polk RtiA9 rated at 500wpc.

Thank you for the clarification on the volume settings. Now let's summarize:

1. You question the validity of the AVR's preout, whether it is 1.2V or much higher per AH review.

I trust Gene's measurement. Denon rated the unit for 1.2V just as most other manufacturers do, those are not the maximum output (see Gene's response post# 44). It is probably a continuous rating. Even 1.2V is pretty close to the 1.4V that Crown requires anyway.

2. You wonder if there is a setting in the Denon that is causing the perceived lack of volume.

That is always possible but you can do a factory processor reset to make sure everything is back to factory default setting. Or you can at least get into setup and make sure the speaker levels for the L/R are set to 0 and listen to direct or even pure direct until you solve this puzzle.

3. You still think you are not getting full output from the Crown?

The Crown tech told you to watch the light at the front, crank the volume up (set the gain on the Crown to max.) to see if you are getting the solid green or briefly flash red. Be very careful to push it to the red though, back off as soon as you are there.

If after trying 2) & 3) you are still not satisfy with the volume, you really need to get a sound meter so you can see what kind of dB you are getting. There are other reasons such as:

- your room is large and you sit far away, such 4 meters or more.
- for whatever reason you need much higher SPL than the rest of us.
- defective components, AVR, amp, cables etc.

Lastly, remember doubling power output only get you 3dB more SPL. As someone has sort of told you already, the Crown amp is not going to help you much in terms of getting much louder sound. You need 6 to 10 dB more SPL to perceive twice as loud.

 

[Mrtvgame]

I have no idea what "Rolls" are? Rolls of bread? Rolls Royce?

Does the Crown amp have unbalanced inputs? Are you using an unbalanced to balanced converter?

If so, use unbalanced to unbalanced instead!

Find out what the gain structure is of the Crown Amp.

A typical standard for amp gain is:
29 dB for unbalanced
23 dB for balanced

If you're using the balanced input of the Crown then you need to drive it an extra +6dB to get the equivalent output you would have had from balanced outputs of your preamp.

How loud can you make it go if you pump it past 80dB? You still have +18dB left on he VC which is a HUGE amount.

It's worry some that you don't feel its loud enough. Have you checked to make sure your speakers aren't blown? What about your hearing?

Rolls refers to Rolls Converter http://www.rolls.com/product.php?pid=mb15b Which I assumed was well known in these circles, but I guess not from your tone.

No worries, most of the the responses have not addressed the original question and have ventured off into condescending undertones. I'll move on to friendlier pastures.

 

[Mrtvgame]

Thank you for the clarification on the volume settings. Now let's summarize:

1. You question the validity of the AVR's preout, whether it is 1.2V or much higher per AH review.

I trust Gene's measurement. Denon rated the unit for 1.2V just as most other manufacturers do, those are not the maximum output (see Gene's response post# 44). It is probably a continuous rating. Even 1.2V is pretty close to the 1.4V that Crown requires anyway.

2. You wonder if there is a setting in the Denon that is causing the perceived lack of volume.

That is always possible but you can do a factory processor reset to make sure everything is back to factory default setting. Or you can at least get into setup and make sure the speaker levels for the L/R are set to 0 and listen to direct or even pure direct until you solve this puzzle.

3. You still think you are not getting full output from the Crown?

The Crown tech told you to watch the light at the front, crank the volume up (set the gain on the Crown to max.) to see if you are getting the solid green or briefly flash red. Be very careful to push it to the red though, back off as soon as you are there.

If after trying 2) & 3) you are still not satisfy with the volume, you really need to get a sound meter so you can see what kind of dB you are getting. There are other reasons such as:

- your room is large and you sit far away, such 4 meters or more.
- for whatever reason you need much higher SPL than the rest of us.
- defective components, AVR, amp, cables etc.

Lastly, remember doubling power output only get you 3dB more SPL. As someone has sort of told you already, the Crown amp is not going to help you much in terms of getting much louder sound. You need 6 to 10 dB more SPL to perceive twice as loud.

Thanks you Pend for trying to address my queries.

2. I may try reset after I run RC and see if anything changes.

3. I did try that last night. Had the Crown gains to full and I had to go to volume rating 85-90 to get a solid -20 reading and then into slight red clipping. My HT set up guy is unfamilar with Crown and is used to other brands not used for commercial applications. Anyway, he went inot Denon settings an dchanged the crossover freq. of the front left and right and that seemed to bring up some of the missing bass.

I am sitting 12 feet bback from these speakers.

So from here, I am thinking of running the Audyssey RC and see what happens. If not satisficed then I will try adding in a Rolls MB15b Promatch.

 

[PENG]

Thanks you Pend for trying to address my queries.

2. I may try reset after I run RC and see if anything changes.

3. I did try that last night. Had the Crown gains to full and I had to go to volume rating 85-90 to get a solid -20 reading and then into slight red clipping. My HT set up guy is unfamilar with Crown and is used to other brands not used for commercial applications. Anyway, he went inot Denon settings an dchanged the crossover freq. of the front left and right and that seemed to bring up some of the missing bass.

I am sitting 12 feet bback from these speakers.

So from here, I am thinking of running the Audyssey RC and see what happens. If not satisficed then I will try adding in a Rolls MB15b Promatch.

I want to make a couple more points.

1) If you did a processor reset to bring it back to factory default condition then you have to do it before you run Audyssey otherwise whatever Audyssey does will be lost once you do the reset.

2) If you have the Crown gain set to maximum, that is "10" and are getting the red clipping light to brink with the Denon at 85 to 90, then you are in fact getting maximum output as confirmed by the Crown tech support person.

So now that we know the Denon is capable of driving the Crown to its rated output, if you want to hear more bass at the lower volume, you should turn on "Dynamic EQ". Be sure to set Dynamic EQ to "ON" and set Dynamic volume to "Off". That's supposed to be the default settings but please double check to make sure.

Sitting 12 feet back is fine as you have more than enough power, though your room does seem a little big so if you walk further away and like your music loud then I am not surprise you have to crank the volume up more than someone who has a smaller room.

 

[rom3]

(Old thread I know), but thanks for the review! Very informative and gave me the confidence to go ahead and replace my venerable Denon 3805 going above my comfort zone in price. Not using it for ATMOS, but it had all the other features I wanted (wi-fi, bluetooth, Pandora, powered zone 2, good measured power) I auditioned this receiver for 2 1/2 weeks and really liked just about everything about it.

However, I did not like the results of the Audyssey correction which was the main reason for upgrading (dual sub eq). I previously hooked up a Pioneer receiver I have to my main system and ran its MCACC program and was very happy with the results, so I have copied that EQ curve into the 3805 and use manual EQ setting (no sub EQ, unfortunately)

I ended up returning the unit. I may have kept it but the final factor was that it ran very, very hot while listening to just 2 channel music at around 75 - 80 dB level. Hot as in put your hand on the top and count "1, 1 thousand, 2, 2 thou... OUCH!" I was worried it would cook itself in a few years. The 3805 under the same conditions is just warm to somewhat hot. I can put my hand on top and leave it there as long as I want.

I sit roughly 10 feet away from the front R/L left speakers.
Front L/R - NHT Absolute Towers
SW - 2 x SVS SB-2000
Crossed over @ 80 Hz
Input Squeezebox via optical, FLAC 2 channel music

 

[mtrot]

So, I just picked up an X5200 in a contest. How is the sound quality for music with the X5200, particularly when using a separate amp for the front L/R channels? I use a Krell amp for front L/R. Has anybody compared the sound quality to other brand receivers? This will replace my Onkyo TX-NR809, the sound quality of which has been exceptional with the Krell, IMO. I do like the newer features of the 5200, such as Bluetooth and 4K video, but not at the expense of any sound quality.

Also, does anybody know if the 5200 still can stream SiriusXM after they changed their streaming codec? My Onkyo no longer gets SXM, due to Onkyo failing to yet offer the necessary firmware upgrade.

Thanks!