Denon AVR for Pre Amp

[stato]

If You were going to purchase a Denon AVR only to pre fronts and run centre and rear channels but still wanted excellant stereo sound which AVR would you go for? I only need 3 HDMI inputs and could get away with only 2 so all have enough goodies on the back for me... just need to know how far up the ladder to go for good stereo pre capability..
Thanks.

 

[mike c]

i'm currently using two Denon 3808's as pre-pros on two different setups and on my bedroom setup the 2307

check out the ff:
3808
2809
2309

 

[stato]

Mike I have heard but do not know if it is true that the lower end Denons are manufactured in China or Taiwan or similar and then when you get so far into their range they are made in Japan..Is this true ? and if so do you know where the change is?

 

[mike c]

28 series and up are made in Japan

23 series and down are made elsewhere.

doesn't really matter where it's made though. i have a 2307, no problems yet.

come to think of it, we seem to be considering/wanting the same brands

 

[stato]

I have been building my knowledge of audio slowly and had plenty of time to save and try to work out what I wanted. The end result hopefully will be a Denon AVR ( probably 2309 or 2808 1500.00 + 1900.00 here ) the 60's as fronts with the 1 or 2 981's powering them, a cc590 centre and 20's for rears. I will at the moment be using my Rotel preamp for 2.1 and selling my old surround stuff (read giving it away almost to my son) and then rebuilding to the above between now and New Year. There is a 900.00 price difference here between the 2309 and 3808. Considering this do you beleive its worth the extra for any sonic improvement as pre amp?
PS. I must have learnt something from you guys on here.....

 

[mike c]

2808 only has two HDMI inputs i think

i dont hear a sonic difference between the models, but one thiing that made me choose the 3808 over the 23 series was that it had variable crossovers for EACH of the channels.

and during that time the 2808 only had two HDMI inputs (but the 2809 now i think has 4 IIRC)

i.e. 120hz for the L and R, 80hz for the center

 

[stato]

Looking at the specs for the 3 I think its a choice between th 3808 or 2309. The 2309 can be had for a grand cheaper here and there is not much between them for me but the 3808 would be nice.

 

[mike c]

what about a 12v trigger ... does the 2309 have one? you might need it if you your rotel amps have 12v triggers

also, the CI version doesn't have pre-outs - our asian version has pre-outs for all channels.

 

[stato]

Your right... as far as I can see the 2309 does not have pre outs in Australia. I have to go 2808 or higher. The 2809 does not seem to be released over here yet. If thats the case I will get the 3808 and be done with it. No need for 12v triggers as my Rotels are to old and do not have them.

 

[kgveteran]

I went from an EAD processor to an Outlaw 990. I now use a Denon 3808ci receiver as a preamp and will never buy a pre-pro again. Talk about bang for the buck. To boot I get Audyssey processing ! All for $1,137.00. Way cool.

The GUI onscreen is unreal. What a deal.

Kg

 

[sokrman14]

I am using a 3808 with my system, and a B&K amp. I love it, but would rather use that money towards a better Preamp if I could go back. I started with an AVR then added an amp because of money issues. But if I could afford them at the same time I would have gotten a separate dedicated preamp.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Agree..........

I went from an EAD processor to an Outlaw 990. I now use a Denon 3808ci receiver as a preamp and will never buy a pre-pro again. Talk about bang for the buck. To boot I get Audyssey processing ! All for $1,137.00. Way cool.

The GUI onscreen is unreal. What a deal.

Kg

 

[stato]

That was my train of thought as well kgveteran. I like the idea of Audyssey and all the little extras that go with it. sokrman14 what pre pro route would you go if you had the chance to do it again? Just curious. Is there something I may be missing or ignoring that could do this job for arround the same price and give beter sound?

 

[WmAx]

I fully recommend this route! Today, many better receivers have transparent pre-amp sections with superbly low noise levels. I have gone full circle from the Stereophile recommended dedicated pre-amps and amplifiers, etc.; now I'm back to where I originally started: a receiver(albeit a very nice one). I use a Yamaha RX-V2600 as my pre-amplifier. It is a superb pre-amp. And it has tons of features/abilities if I ever need them. It looks as good as any dedicated pre-amp with it's clean/simple front and thick polished alloy face. I feed it' outputs to a DSP crossover/controller that in turn feeds 3 Yamaha professional amplifiers which power my 3 way active speaker system.

While my set-up may be rather unconventional according to the standard audiophile point of view, I am no standard audiophile. In fact, because of the behavior(s) of most of these people and their willingness to be taken as a sucker, I rather object to being referred to as one!

-Chris

 

[jamie2112]

Chris I am really glad you are unconventional. If you weren't we would not have so many great ideas from you my friend. Keep going away from the norm Chris...It suits you much better...

 

[stato]

WmAx that is is one solid set of audio pleasure there. Thanks for the input and its nice to know I am on the right track. Do you think there is any difference between different brands if only using them as a pre? If you have a good quality Denon vs Marantz vs Pioneer vs Yamaha. People say that diferent brands give differing results etc ( smoother , airy , more musical orientated ). I am not really sold on any brand but will probably get the Denon 3808 but I also like the 'look' of the Pioneer Elite series which over here is called the LX I think.

 

[WmAx]

WmAx that is is one solid set of audio pleasure there. Thanks for the input and its nice to know I am on the right track. Do you think there is any difference between different brands if only using them as a pre? If you have a good quality Denon vs Marantz vs Pioneer vs Yamaha. People say that diferent brands give differing results etc ( smoother , airy , more musical orientated ). I am not really sold on any brand but will probably get the Denon 3808 but I also like the 'look' of the Pioneer Elite series which over here is called the LX I think.

There is no 'sound' to these modern units. They are designed to provide absolute flat tonal response with no audible deviation(s). Of course, some cheap models may have audible noise/hiss. And different brands/models may have different voltage capabilities on the inputs and outputs of the pre-amp connections. One of the reasons I chose the Yamaha RX-V2600 is because it has been measured by Audioholics and found to be a superb pre-amp. It also is able to output and input 4 volts RMS on the preamp section with no clipping. It can be important to have that ability if you want a great deal of future versatility/compatibility. It's not usually needed to that range of voltage, but it insures compatibility. I'll probably use this as my preamp for 5-10 years minimum. The descriptions you have heard concerning audible signatures are from sighted non-level matched listening; that is, letting the psychological aspect enter the equation - but this is not a true audible aspect. In addition, most don't even bother to match the levels of each device within 0.1dB of each other when comparing. Even in a blinded test, if one is 1db louder than the other, it will usually sound better, because it is well known that human hearing changes the tonal balance and perception when you listen at different volume levels. A slightly louder signal will usually have positive perceived differences. I will tell you this: if there was ANY audible coloration in my electronics, I would not use them! My tt of course, is going to have some coloration -- it's vinyl for goodness sake! lol But you have to accept some coloration when dealing with such an archaic format. I did, however, seek out the best/lowest coloration turn table I could for the money I had to spend.

-Chris

 

[stato]

Thanks very much for your reply WmAx, it has cleared up a lot of my thinking on what to do. There is nothing wrong with 'archaic' and my kids, in their teens, don't even know what a turntable is. They probably would think you eat off it, lol. I think I will go for the Denon 3808, just because I have never owned one yet, or the Pioneer LX70. Will not be long now until my new speakers arrive and I will be able to set all the new gear up together. Once again thanks