DENON AVR-5803 or Yamaha RX-Z9

[flyv65]

Lack of watts for MC are my only complaint w/ the 3805? Got to explain that.

I'm pushing 4 Spendor S5e speakers for the corners and a C3 for my center, and these are typically a bit on the "watt hungry" side. Do they sound good? You betcha; but I've heard them run with my buddy's Moon W-5 amp (195 wpc) and the soundstage opened up at a lower dB than they normally do. IIRC, the Audioholics review of the 3805 showed 77 wpc into 5 driven. That's what I meant by lack of watts...I'd like to pick up a nice 5 or 7 channel amp putting out 200wpc and continue to use the 3805 as my preamp, but money is tight these days.

Bryan...'o course, impressions are subjective, not objective...

 

[jms27]

K, Well I'm a mess now, getting grey hairs!!!

Well, K, did some research, I'm not worried about the Wires, I need some help, preferably unbiased, everything is falling apart with my plans, i originally thought about getting seperate amps, but by then i had researched and researched it down to denon 5803 or yamaha rx-z9, now i just wanna buy a system, but if im going to spend this much, im thinkin i should've researched on getting a seperate amps, but im clueless on that subject! Also I wanted to get the Avant 900 Series, but then axiom popped in to the scene, my living room where i plan on setting this sucker up i is over 5,000 cubic feet, Axiom Epic 80/600, I called axiom and the rep asked about my reciever, he told me that my denon couldn't handle the 4ohms, the yamaha he said may be, probably not for long. He suggested seperate amps for the m80, 2 monoblock or stereo. Also he suggested going with the denon 3805, then buying a 5 or 7 channel surround amp. I kind of like that idea, that way i can keep the amps and upgrade the reciever as needed. So now yall could give me some good amp recommendation, i want to spend less than $2000 for the amps! Im using this stuff all for one room!

Thanks Everybody!

Ps. Im ready to order/press the trigger, i'll post a pic once i set it all up!!

 

[flyv65]

What kind of requirements do the Axioms have for power? Most of the 5 or 7 channel amps pushing 200wpc @8ohms are going to be giving you 300wpc@4ohms (give or take). The only problem is that new, these amps seem to *start* at $2200 and go up from there. You could check used stuff at Audiogon.com (look at the Sherbourn 7/2100, Rotel, Outlaw, Adcom, Gemstone, and Parasound). These seem to be pretty good amps that would/might fall in your price range. If you want to stretch your legs dollar-wise, look at Moon (Simaudio), Bryston, Halcro, Meridian, Arcam, etc. I lean towards the Sherbourn myself, but thats mostly due to the features it has (bridgeable, balanced/unbalanced inputs, circuit check, and dual plugs). Still, in your shoes I'd buy the one I got the best deal on...I'm not sure you can go wrong with most well-built amps.

Bryan...have fun shopping...

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

JMS,

As a 3805 owner, why not consider the newer 4806, or newer Yamaha just out (if budget permits) with HDMI and DVI options? Another great receiver out now is the Marantz SR8500 with HDMI and DVI. With more and more TV's and digital cable boxes having HDMI connections, it sure would make life easier with that connection. That's what I would do today in your shoes. Other than the connection, I love the 3805. The problem is I just upgraded my cable to a digital DVR with HDMI connections. If budget doesn't permit, then by all means the 3805 is a great choice. There will be no issue driving the Avant 900 series speakers. If power is an issue, and you want to stick with a receiver, but HDMI is not important to you, consider the HK7300. One of my favorites!

www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/YamahaRXV4600.php

http://us.marantz.com/shop/_templates/Proddetail.asp?model=25&cat=15

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/show-report-ces-2005-page-1.html
www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3974030

 

[gene]

I speculate that the 5805 will not be able to put out more than 500 watts simultaneously into any amount of channels.

Your speculations are incorrect. Glad we have measurements The maximum any Class A/B amp can deliver out of one 15A outlet is about 120*15*(0.4) = 720 watts. Whether you have a so called powerhouse 7CH amp that boasts 200wpc x 7 yet has one power cord, or the amp section in the 5805, you wont be able to deliver more than these numbers for linear amps. With that in mind, the power supply of the AVR-5805 is NOT the limiting factor, the outlet and UL approved receptacle is.

Again for the 1 millionth time, all channels driven is yet another audio fallacy that people fall into. What's more important is how the amp handles dynamics, its frequency response uniformity loaded/unloaded, SNR, distortion etc.

Music is not a continuous test tone in all channels!

 

[gene]

i want to spend less than $2000 for the amps! Im using this stuff all for one room!

The Emotiva MPS-1 is a very good amp (currently under review) for your application. Its switching design makes it very efficient, cool running and should meet your power needs. Best of all its in your price range of $2000.

 

[RLA]

Again for the 1 millionth time, all channels driven is yet another audio fallacy that people fall into. What's more important is how the amp handles dynamics, its frequency response uniformity loaded/unloaded, SNR, distortion etc.

Welcome back on the wagon I have been keeping the seat warm for ya!

 

[flyv65]

The Emotiva MPS-1 is a very good amp (currently under review) for your application. Its switching design makes it very efficient, cool running and should meet your power needs. Best of all its in your price range of $2000.

So Gene: when do we get the review, eh? JMS27 isn't the only person who shops amps on a regular basis, you know.

Bryan..got an audio monkey on my back, I do...

 

[gene]

So Gene: when do we get the review, eh?

I am writing the review as we speak but still dizzy from the AVR-5805 review. When do I get a break?

 

[flyv65]

I am writing the review as we speak but still dizzy from the AVR-5805 review. When do I get a break?

So just because you're having a tough week, we should suffer? (paraphrased from "Fiddler on the Roof"). Seriously-take your time...I can wait untill Thursday .

Bryan...I really like this site...

 

[jms27]

Decision Made, Thanks Gene and Everybody Else!

Well, while im at it, thanks everybody!! K, Im done, I've decided on the Denon 3505, I looked at the Denon 4806, well i dont want to wait on it. So i ordered the denon 3805(overnighted)-$1199, pair of the Axiom m80ti(4ohms)(front), Pair QS8 Surrounds, VP150 Center, EP350 Powered Subwoofer, and Pair QS8 Surrounds(rear), all should be hear by thursday! Now i said i want to spend less than $2000 for amps, well i decided to bring it down to $1500, reason being i have decided to order a hp media pc to go with this setup! Thats a whole lotta money! So Please i know this is getting long but please give me some unbiased amp suggestion in the range of $1500-1000, or less.

Thanks

Ps. I live in Birmingham, Alabama, anybody have any suggestion for any professional installers around here! Gene I will buy a audioholics something, to show my appreciation! Thanks Guys, I feel the love!!

 

[PENG]

I tried my 3805 with a Bryston SST and a Adcom GFA-555, not much difference. You can get one of those later model Adcom 2 or 3 channel amp to take care of the two 4 ohm m80ti fronts. The 3805 should be able to handle the surrounds easily.

 

[gene]

So Please i know this is getting long but please give me some unbiased amp suggestion in the range of $1500-1000, or less.

We have a few amps for sale in your price range. Drop me an email for more details at gds@audioholics.com.

Gene I will buy a audioholics something, to show my appreciation! Thanks Guys, I feel the love!!

Much appreciated, though it doesn't make us rich by any means, we like getting our name out to the masses.

 

[RLA]

eed some decent 12 gauge wire to hook it all up that sounds almost identical to the best wire in the world? Try some electric wire from Home Depot - yes, the same stuff that's hooked to your light switches. Actually, your light switches are probably using 14 gauge wire. 12 gauge electrical wire is rated to 1920 watts of power - think that's enough?

This may not be such a good idea becuse of the skin effect that a solid copper conductor will create
This can be a problem starting at 10kHz-40kHz

 

[jms27]

wow its almost 5am my time, im off to bed!

Good Morning everybody,

Just got done reading up on cables here on audioholics, and speaker placement from dobly labs site! Well my brain is toast! Looked at some amps, MARANTZ MM-9000, Rotel RMB-1095, and Sherwood Newcastle A-965! You know, the denon microphone for the autosetup is a little too much($65)!! One more thing, if yall dont mind, what kind of remote does the denon 3805 come with, and is it good? Last but not least, i think i'll use axiom bulk cables from their website, then add locking banana plugs, use their terminated wire from the reciever to the amps! I care equally about value and performance!!

Thanks yall

joe c

Ps. Anybody selling a denon microphone, preferably less than $65.

 

[flyv65]

Good Morning everybody,

One more thing, if yall dont mind, what kind of remote does the denon 3805 come with, and is it good?

Oof, are YOU gonna stir up a hornet's nest with that question! Short answer: some of us really like it, some really hate it, and the rest just don't care.

Bryan...but I really like it...

 

[Takeereasy]

Have you considered outlaw audio? They have the 770 amp that puts out 200w @ 8ohms and 300w at 4 ohms for $1800 and if you can get it B stock from them it is $1550. Supposed to be nice amps, actually I think they are the same as that Sherwood amp you mentioned. Also have you considered what the Axiom guy said about getting some mono amps or a stereo amp for just the front two. The 3805 would have no problem powereing the other speakers IMO. You can get some pretty sweet mono or stereo amps to run Your 80's for well under a grand.

 

[PENG]

This may not be such a good idea becuse of the skin effect that a solid copper conductor will create
This can be a problem starting at 10kHz-40kHz

For a short run of 12 gauge wire, I wouldn't worry about skin effect, the conductor has a large enough surface area for those high frequencies. It may give you a "warmer" sound anyway .

jms,

The remote is easy to use, my first one failed within a week. The second one has been good so far but it eats batteries. I paid approx C$100 (tax in) for the mic and regretted it. I ended up doing all the calibrations manually. To me the auto setup is a waste of time, but you may like it, as many others apparently do.

 

[gene]

For a short run of 12 gauge wire, I wouldn't worry about skin effect, the conductor has a large enough surface area for those high frequencies. It may give you a "warmer" sound anyway

Ray is correct, 12AWG solid core wire is not a good idea for speaker cables since it will perform poorer than equivalent stranded, be very inflexible, etc. I will eventually do an article comparison for fun when I get back on the cable kick.