Denon avr 3313 and canton le 100 set setup problem!!!

[Aleksandar]

I just bought a Denon avr 3313 and canton le 100 set that consists of canton le 190 front speakers, s Canton le 150 center speaker, canton le 120 surround speakers and canton as 105 sc subwoofer. I used Audyssey setup microphone and the 8 position setup but I don't like the result. The subwoofer is always set to - 12 dB is there is still too much base and muddled. The center speaker is set to small and I have to manually set the volume up to get a clear dialogue. For music the sound is bearable but for movies it is a disaster. Muddled bass through out all speakers. The source is a DTS hd so this is unacceptable. What should I do?

 

[crossedover]

I just bought a Denon avr 3313 and canton le 100 set that consists of canton le 190 front speakers, s Canton le 150 center speaker, canton le 120 surround speakers and canton as 105 sc subwoofer. I used Audyssey setup microphone and the 8 position setup but I don't like the result. The subwoofer is always set to - 12 dB is there is still too much base and muddled. The center speaker is set to small and I have to manually set the volume up to get a clear dialogue. For music the sound is bearable but for movies it is a disaster. Muddled bass through out all speakers. The source is a DTS hd so this is unacceptable. What should I do?

do you still get the same result of muddled sound with no room correction applied?

 

[avliner]

First off, welcome to the forum!

One good advice before running Audissey, is to manually set all speakers to 0dB. Second step is to run Audissey the regular way, ok?

Regarding to the SW (LFE channel), forget about what Audissey says and manually set it back to 0dB and leave it that way though. You must also turn the volume knob on the SW at 9 o'clock position, initially and don't forget to turn the XO knob all they way to the right, so the bass management will be done by the AVR.

If you want more bass, turn up the volume knob on the SW, or vice-versa.

Oh, and if Audissey sets any of the speakers to Large, turn them back to Small. Do that procedure and come back with results, though.

 

[Aleksandar]

First off, welcome to the forum!

One good advice before running Audissey, is to manually set all speakers to 0dB. Second step is to run Audissey the regular way, ok?

Regarding to the SW (LFE channel), forget about what Audissey says and manually set it back to 0dB and leave it that way though. You must also turn the volume knob on the SW at 9 o'clock position, initially and don't forget to turn the XO knob all they way to the right, so the bass management will be done by the AVR.

If you want more bass, turn up the volume knob on the SW, or vice-versa.

Oh, and if Audissey sets any of the speakers to Large, turn them back to Small. Do that procedure and come back with results, though.

What is the xo knob, you said to turn it all the way to the right. Sorry I am a beginner so the question may be stupid. I have a phase a Crossover and volume knob.

 

[Aleksandar]

do you still get the same result of muddled sound with no room correction applied?

No the sound was not muddled. I only tried tuner radio stations with no Audyssey and it was not muddled.

 

[avliner]

Ok, lets go:

1) leave the phase knob initially at 0 degrees;
2) turn the crossover (XO) knob all the way to the right;
3) set the volume knob at 9 o'clock position, initially.

 

[crossedover]

What is the xo knob, you said to turn it all the way to the right. Sorry I am a beginner so the question may be stupid. I have a phase a Crossover and volume knob.

 

[Aleksandar]

Thank you for your help. I will report back. One more question. In the receiver do I set lfe + Main or just lfe and 120 he?

 

[avliner]

No, set it to LFE and start with 80Hz XO.

 

[highfigh]

Thank you for your help. I will report back. One more question. In the receiver do I set lfe + Main or just lfe and 120 he?

Yes- LFE+Main. Set the other speakers to 'Small' because you want the subwoofer to be the source of the bass, not the other speakers. Set the subwoofer crossover to a frequency that's higher than anything it would need to produce and let the Denon handle this function. Level can be set higher, as well. If Audyssey shows a polarity problem on a front speaker, check the wiring- if there's no problem, ignore the warning and proceed normally.

 

[Aleksandar]

No, set it to LFE and start with 80Hz XO.

I did what you said. Set all speakers to 0 dB and did the Audyssey 8 position setup. It set my front and center to large and now because the subwoofer is set to LFE to 80 hz it does not play. Now I set all speakers to small?

 

[Aleksandar]

Yes- LFE+Main. Set the other speakers to 'Small' because you want the subwoofer to be the source of the bass, not the other speakers. Set the subwoofer crossover to a frequency that's higher than anything it would need to produce and let the Denon handle this function. Level can be set higher, as well. If Audyssey shows a polarity problem on a front speaker, check the wiring- if there's no problem, ignore the warning and proceed normally.

I set all the speakers to small and now the subwoofer works. I put the subwoofer to LFE +Main and lpf for lfe to 80Hz. Is this good?

 

[Aleksandar]

The sound is really bad for movies if all speakers are set to small. If I leave the front and center to large like Audyssey set them the sound is better. What XO should I use for the speakers and for the subwoofer?

 

[TLS Guy]

The sound is really bad for movies if all speakers are set to small. If I leave the front and center to large like Audyssey set them the sound is better. What XO should I use for the speakers and for the subwoofer?

My guess is that the sub is the problem. European subs are just not worth a halfpence of spit.

Canton have useless specs as there are no F3 point. I would bet that sub has little output below 30 to 35 Hz and is a boomer to boot.

On the other hand your mains are pretty capable.

I would forget Audussey for anything except balancing distance and and levels except the sub.

Set the left and right mains to large. Set the other speakers to small.

Set to LFE + main. Set the crossover receiver to 60 Hz.

Set the volume on the sub to the mid position to start with. Set the sub crossover to 200 or higher.

Now set the the LFE level on the sub until you can just detect it is supplementing the mains.

I would bet it will sound quite good then.

Forget about Audyssey for any type of frequency correction. It hopeless and based on a totally false and unachievable premise.

 

[PENG]

I set all the speakers to small and now the subwoofer works. I put the subwoofer to LFE +Main and lpf for lfe to 80Hz. Is this good?

No Alek, you are not doing everything right, just something of the things right. I strongly suggest you read and follow the step by step instructions on the Audyssey website.

http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/how-to

Or read the more detailed version linked below:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/audio-processing/68407-audyssey-multeq-faq-setup-guide.html

If you want to try something quick though do the following:

1. As mentioned before, turn the subwoofer's Crossover knob to maximum to let Audyssey do its magic.

2. Set the subwoofer volume know to 9 O'clock position, also as suggested by others before.

3. Turn the phase knob to 0 degree.

4. If there are other features on your sub, such as PEQ, disable them. If there is no provision to disable them, set them to minimum.

All of the above had been mentioned previously but I want to repeat it here for your convenience. Now,

5. Run Audyssey auto setup by following instruction, keep the mic well clear of the back of your sofa, armchair or whatever. Do not worry about the speaker level or the master volume because Audyssey will take care of that for you.

6. When you are done, you will find that Audyssey may set your speakers to large again, manually change them to small.

7. For the main L,R,C, surrounds L,R, surround back L,R channels set crossover to 80 Hz.

8. Now on the "Bass" sub menu, select LFE, DO NOT select LFE+Main unless you want "double bass". Some people prefers that but you should try the normal LFE first.

9. Set LPF for LFE to 120 Hz, or higher. Note that there is no such thing as LFE crossover for the 3313, I think you got it mixed up with LPF. LPF is low pass filter. Setting it to 120 Hz will allow frequencies below 120 Hz going to the subwoofer. Movies are supposed to have up to 120 Hz bass information in the LFE channel so please do not short change the subwoofer by limiting it to 80 Hz.

Edit: Just want to clarify the LFE+Main mode a little. This mode should only make a difference if the speakers (at least the mains) are set to "Large".

This can be confusing because when there is a LFE channel, such as DD, DTS 5.1, 7.1, the subwoofer has double duties, it has to play the LFE channel, but also the low range frequencies below the crossover points of the other channels that are set to small.

That's why some people call LFE+Main as the double bass mode because in that mode the bass will be played not only by the speakers set to "large" but also by the subwoofer that otherwise will only play the LFE channel. Again, this is only applicable if at least the "Mains" (L,R) are set to "Large".

 

[highfigh]

I set all the speakers to small and now the subwoofer works. I put the subwoofer to LFE +Main and lpf for lfe to 80Hz. Is this good?

The more important question- "Does it sound good, to you?".

 

[Aleksandar]

The more important question- "Does it sound good, to you?".

Well for music yes but for movies no. I don't understand how on Dolby true hd and DTS hd the bass is not clear and the dialogue is not heard if I don't increase the dialogue volume to 5+ dB. This is so strange and I am very frustrated.

 

[crossedover]

Well for music yes but for movies no. I don't understand how on Dolby true hd and DTS hd the bass is not clear and the dialogue is not heard if I don't increase the dialogue volume to 5+ dB. This is so strange and I am very frustrated.

Read through the setup links PENG linked above, after confirming the correct settings report back. Hopefully it is a setup issue and not your center speaker and sub that is disappointing to you. Since music is fine and you seem to have to the issue only with with movies a couple of questions:
How far do you sit from speakers
What is your room size
When you say bass isnt clear, can you describe the sound (note the massive port if it is the source of the unclear sound
What are your music sources ie CD, Flac, MP3, internet radio

 

[PENG]

Read through the setup links PENG linked above, after confirming the correct settings report back. Hopefully it is a setup issue and not your center speaker and sub that is disappointing to you. Since music is fine and you seem to have to the issue only with with movies a couple of questions:
How far do you sit from speakers
What is your room size
When you say bass isnt clear, can you describe the sound (note the massive port if it is the source of the unclear sound
What are your music sources ie CD, Flac, MP3, internet radio

I would like to add a couple more questions, hope you don't mind. This is so he only need to reply to one post.

When he listen to music (he said then it was fine), did he use pure direct, direct, stereo, or any other mode?

For movies, did he try as TLSG suggested, select Audyssey off?

How is the centre channel placed, are there anything (such as an Ottoman) between that speaker and the sitting position?

I think after he answered all of the above, he will have a better chance to help narrow down the root causes.

 

[highfigh]

I just bought a Denon avr 3313 and canton le 100 set that consists of canton le 190 front speakers, s Canton le 150 center speaker, canton le 120 surround speakers and canton as 105 sc subwoofer. I used Audyssey setup microphone and the 8 position setup but I don't like the result. The subwoofer is always set to - 12 dB is there is still too much base and muddled. The center speaker is set to small and I have to manually set the volume up to get a clear dialogue. For music the sound is bearable but for movies it is a disaster. Muddled bass through out all speakers. The source is a DTS hd so this is unacceptable. What should I do?

Do you have guests or other family members sitting in all of the places where you set the mic? If not, try running Audyssey in your main listening position and then, only one place to the left and to the right of that seat. Any room correction program is trying to create a "bubble" where the sound is consistent, but that doesn't mean it will be good is all, or anywhere. As an example, if the room has one side wall that reflects and the other absorbs, it will cause problems between the channels.

Try running Audyssey with the subwoofer turned off in Speaker Setup. There's no reason it should sound muddled and I have used this model of AVR. The mic is pointing up? That makes a difference- it's not supposed to be aimed at the speakers.