Denon AVR-1611 blowing PSB Alpha Series (LR1/CLR1) Speakers

[jostenmeat]

jostenmeat, the prices are below:

• Denon AVR3310CI
  $899.95
  
  
• PSB Alpha B1
  $184.95
  
  
• PSB Alpha C1
  $200.00
  
  
• PSB SubSeries 5i
  $450.00
  
  +13% HST

Ah, while I can pretty much match those prices with a much superior speaker, the problem is that you are in CA (I had to look up HST). Oh well, shucks. You may have noticed that PENG and 3db are from your country, so I'm going to leave well alone here, and I'm sure they'll have good perspective on available pricing up there.

Honestly though, I'd start smaller then, though. Like 2.0. Commercial type speakers?

For the sub, if you are willing to build one, and you don't mind a very large size, you can get way more for your buck than you can possibly imagine. Seriously, honestly. But, it will probably be huge, haha.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the info PENG. I will consider buying a different sub from somewhere else. How much do you think that sub is worth?

I am not familiar with PSB subwoofers but after doing some search myself as well as reading what 3 dB said about them, I must say for $450 it may be your best available option. I wouldn't buy any subwoofers from Futureshop unless they offer at least 35% discount from their regular list price (I mean not inflated list price). It looks like you have done your home work on speakers.

 

[Twinbird]

I have read good reviews about these speakers and amp .

jostenmeatm, building my own sub sounds fun. I have a small home biz (modifying / repairing Xbox 360s and other small electronics) so I think I have the tools needed to put one together. However, I just don't have the time right now. Maybe when exams are over or during the holidays I can look into it more. Would you say that I would save 50% (after everything is finished) if I built my own sub vs. buying a new one (the same kind)? I don't mind big subs, the bigger the better - I want it to shake my chest


This is a great forum and I will be reading through here some more.

 

[jostenmeat]

I have read good reviews about these speakers and amp .

jostenmeatm, building my own sub sounds fun. I have a small home biz (modifying / repairing Xbox 360s and other small electronics) so I think I have the tools needed to put one together. However, I just don't have the time right now. Maybe when exams are over or during the holidays I can look into it more. Would you say that I would save 50% (after everything is finished) if I built my own sub vs. buying a new one (the same kind)? I don't mind big subs, the bigger the better - I want it to shake my chest


This is a great forum and I will be reading through here some more.

Tough question. It depends on:

- if the money goes towards only performance, or smaller size (you don't care), or nice finish.

-the budget we are talking about. To a certain point, the more you spend, the more value you might get with DIY (it's probably not worth DIY with a very puny budget).

Therefore, if you are ok with ugly or no finish, a monstrosity of a subwoofer, the performance savings are probably more like in the thousands of dollars, or 500% or something. Make sense maybe?

For instance, check out the Tuba HT by Fitzmaurice (plans cost $15). It's big, it's efficient, it'll rattle your rib cage with only modest power, it'll break your windows with only moderate power, and it'll be super clean doing it all. It doesn't have the lowest of the lowest extension, but chasing that is dubious according to many (I wanted it, but mine is freaking 5' wide and 280lbs; yes, I took advil).

annunaki loves helping people design subs, if he has the time. TLS Guy of course knows his shiznit as well.

Oh, if you do want something custom by a pro, or a good value for you in CA, Funky Waves I think it's called is supposed to be good. billy p (another Canuck) raves about it.

 

[Twinbird]

From what I've been reading, the Tuba HT, although it is big, is an amazing sub. I don't want to pay Funky Waves to custom build something for me; I would rather build it myself - much more fun, much more educational, and much less $$$.

I have a lot of questions (which probably belong more in the Beginners and Audiophytes or DIY Corner - Tips & Techniques forum, but...) how would I connect the Tuba HT to the Denon AVR3310 I will be purchasing? There is a cable connecting the "Low Level Input from Preamp" port on my sub (PSB SubSeries 1) to the "Subwoofer Pre Out" port on my Denon ARV1611. This is a single cable connection and there seems to be no other subwoofer outputs on the amp (only this one way to connect it - the AVR3310 has two of these ports to connect two subs). Will I be able to connect the Tuba HT this way?

The sub has two "Low Level Input from Preamp" ports, one labeled "Left", the other "Right". I have it plugged into "Left", what is the difference? There are also four "High Level Input from Receiver" screw-terminals (two "right" + / -, two "left", + / -), what are these for?

There is also a switch that lets me choose between "External Crossover (LFE Input)" or "Internal Crossover". As well as another switch that lets me choose between "Phase 180°" or "0°".

What are these settings and what should I have them set to?

 

[jostenmeat]

DIY is your best bet. You need to buy an amp, but because how efficient that THT is, you really don't need much!

If you get a commercial amp like most sub DIYers, all you need is RCA/XLR, which is maybe few bucks. The commercial might* need a higher input voltage, and then all you do is add a Samson Sconvert. I happen to still have both above, if you want it for cheaper, assuming I'm still holding on. See, I thought I might need the Samson; I don't.

I like my Crown XTi2000 (had for $500), not only for the rep, but the free software I can plug right into it with laptop, using free BandManager. I can setup inputs, apply numerous filters, with wide ranging Q selectivity, shelf filters, xovers, yada yada. I unfortunately cannot apply a highpass from below 20hz, but I honestly don't think it would help me all that much; I never hit reference. I can have up to 20 presets with all kinds of setting in my Crown amp. I've used up about 1/3 through the various experiments.

The cheaper commercial amps could be Behringer, but some people don't like their rep/reliability, like Wayne P, or Midnight Sensi. My audio pro friend would hate me if I ever bought Behringer, but that's another story (has to do with history of patent-stealing).

The likely scenario is that you use receiver's internal xover, and that you tweak the rest with an outboard EQ.

I forgot to say about the RCA/XLR, it's just right from the LFE output.

 

[Twinbird]

I'm still a little confused and I'm not sure what RCA/XLR is but I'll read into it.

I got my new speakers and receiver yesterday - they are much bigger and sound much better. Money well spent!

 

[jostenmeat]

I'm still a little confused and I'm not sure what RCA/XLR is but I'll read into it.

I got my new speakers and receiver yesterday - they are much bigger and sound much better. Money well spent!

What speakers and receiver did you decide on?

Commercial amps typically do not have the standard red/white, RCA, type connectors. They have the microphone style with three prongs, and this is XLR. I use Monoprice, and you can get an adapter for less than $4 there:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10244&cs_id=1024404&p_id=4775&seq=1&format=2

 

[Twinbird]

I see, thank you.

I bought the items I previously mentioned (Denon AVR3310CI, PSB Alpha B1 x2, PSB Alpha C1 and PSB SubSeries 5i).

Is it possible to have an amp with a volume control? Or do most of them just have one input (RCA or XLR)? I know I can adjust the gain for the sub in the receiver (is this right?) but is it possible to have a 'volume' control on the sub to make it louder (like what I have on the SubSeries 5i)?

 

[jostenmeat]

Yes. Mine has gain for both channels. Since I have that software I use directly via USB with the amp, it knows to just take one input as a "Y input" so that channel 1's volume (and all settings) affect both channels. (My sub has two woofers inside.)

Some people instead opt for plate amps to be attached right on the sub, but I prefer the outboard amp, opting to send speaker wire rather than an interconnect.

AFAIK, none* have RCA (there might be one, but I sure can't remember it), and they all* have XLR. So far as I know. Whether QSC, Crown, Crest, Yamaha, Behringer, etc.

Why did you buy the sub if you're intending to build one.

I still stand by my opinion that I don't think you should have bought those speakers. I would prefer that you bought 2 rather 3, if only to throw more money into a pair with higher power handling.

 

[Twinbird]

I plan to get two more speakers in the future so I have 7 in total. The two speakers I get will probably be better (tower speakers up front is what I'm thinking). The B1s (+C1) sound good to me and it is what fit into my budget.

It's going to be a little while before I'm all ready to get that Tuba HT built. I actually got the SubSeries 5i for really cheap as it was their last one (it was their "display model") and I didn't want a system without a subwoofer. I may sell the 5i when I have my sub built or I may keep both and have a 7.2 setup.

My parents paid for the entire system so I have to pay back half then save up for the THT.

 

[lights out]

Am i setting my self up to fall in the same trap as OP.

Ill be using a denon 1610 to drive psb t45 and c40 with no sub (or rears) for the time being.

 

[Ares]

I will ask a couple of questions

1) Are you planing on throwing parties with your gear?
2) What are the measurements of the room your gear will be placed in LxWxH?

 

[lights out]

lol I like the party reference makes for a good verb shall i say..?

no is the answer.

typically the set up will be used for home theater use with ample music listening of course- not exactly a dedicated home cinema. the room is average sized.


the viewing/listening area will is about 15x12 and about 25% in addition to that is an area opened to the where the kitchen stands.

not to get too ahead of my self but what do you recommend i upgrade towards first to: a sub or surrounds? that is ofcourse if the little denon will holds its own with these. they're sensitivity is something that drew me to them, as well as the price and satisfactory reviews, however i don't know what to make of the ohm issue,,,i find my self kind of paranoid

 

[lights out]

Hey Ares I notice from your signature you have a similar set up only you are using the 1910. Being that 15w is what separates it from its younger 'brother' can I assume I'll be swimming in safe waters? I'd really appreciate it if you could share some knowledge with regards to their compatibility. Does your amp over heat, do you experience clipping, what volumes do you deem comfortable pushing them. Pls inform me before I end up making a sequel to this thread.

 

[Ares]

I understand your worries, I was once in your shoes if you look at my Sig I have the same fronts as you and I'm using a Denon 1910. I came close last year to picking up the 1610 but something bothered me about it and I couldn't shake that feeling so I went a step-up. If this is how you feel as well then may I suggest going up to the 1911 as a minimum just to put your mind at ease.

I haven't had an issue with this Denon pushing my speakers my room is 14'10"x10'10"x9' which opens into the next room which is 9'5"x8'10"x9' I keep my volume for Movies between -25 to -20dB and for Music -30 to -25dB. I would suggest a sub next and there are several companies that have a large following here like SVS, Elemental Designs, Epik, Rhythmik, HSU, Funky Waves the list is very long I would suggest you take the time and look at the different models that each company has to offer read reviews both Expert and User and get input from some of the Bass Junkies here.

I would suggest that you create a new thread titled Hey Guys I Need a Sub" that's music to a bass junkie's ears and remember to include your room measurements.

Note: you posted your next questions before I had a chance to finish this long post.

 

[lights out]

lol thanks

The problem is I feel like I'm in no mans land with this receiver. I'm just getting my feet wet with this avr addiction and in doing so I figured the 1610 would be a decent way to start. Upon lengths of reading I'm developing this impression that driving floorstanding speakers (ideally what i wanted) is no easy task. Among the candidates I had in mind were also the energy rc30 , kefiq50, and wharefedale 10.5 and again I came to the same conclusion: they will work; however the extent of their efficiency remained the daunting question. (the psb's were also aquired at a significantly cheaper cost) May just have to fllip a coin to decide if I should scrap the entire idea (floorstanders) and go with a satellite package as I am nott particularly a fan of bookshelfs.

 

[Ares]

I will offer this piece of advice don't compromise on the speakers because you will look back and say man I wish I would have gotten those. I have lurked around here long before I joined and I have seen that comment made many times. You choose the receiver to match your speakers and not the speakers to match your receiver.

 

[lights out]

I guess you say i painted the walls before installing the floors. (week analogy?) I agree with your theory of avoiding buyers remorse which is why I am choosing to gradually build towards complete 5.1 besides the fact of budget restraints. The reason I bought the amp first was it seemed like the easiest of the purchases again budget steered decisions. Buying anything significantly better meant an increase of almost double the cost. Further more I was advised that amp cost should be a minor percentage of the total system, so on a numbers perspective it seemed logical. All in all it just speaks to the ill preconceived notions I was adhering to. arg!!!!!!!

ps. were you not satisfied with the c40
psii..thats a nicec sub u got ursllef, i bet it sounds sweet

 

[Ares]

I guess you say i painted the walls before installing the floors. (week analogy?) I agree with your theory of avoiding buyers remorse which is why I am choosing to gradually build towards complete 5.1 besides the fact of budget restraints. The reason I bought the amp first was it seemed like the easiest of the purchases again budget steered decisions. Buying anything significantly better meant an increase of almost double the cost. Further more I was advised that amp cost should be a minor percentage of the total system, so on a numbers perspective it seemed logical. All in all it just speaks to the ill preconceived notions I was adhering to. arg!!!!!!!

ps. were you not satisfied with the c40
psii..thats a nicec sub u got ursllef, i bet it sounds sweet

To be honest the 1910 wasn't my first or second choice it was a compromise that had to be made at the last minute but one I was comfortable in making since I knew it was capable of handling the speakers. I could have compromised on the speakers but I would have never been happy and every time I would see them and listen to them I would be think I wish I bought the other ones.

Now for the center I choose the C60 over the C40 because IMO it was better in the mid-range than the C40 plus I personally like the look of a larger center which BTW is a bit of a PITA to place due to it's size. I like the 6i I have no complaints and it has enough oomph for my room PSB subs get no love like most of the ID companies but it is what it is.